A house divided against itself cannot stand

[Zelknolf]

And what exactly will they be doing, getting killed with a cloudkill spell while trying to rp and participate??

Hey, we all agreed that was a terrible way to go, but I would point out that it's possible to be the lowbie amongst the highbies, even in that campaign. Sure, Roderick also died in that campaign; he was lucky enough to have made strong enough friendships and to have died heroically enough that the others paid for a raise. He also got hit by countless cloudkills - 4 while without any protection from death magic (no save bonuses, no death ward, nothin' nice like that). It's difficult, yes, but possible, and I do make it a policy as a DM to dub 'risk' different based on PC survivability, and thus XP awards. i.e. the lowbie will catch up, eventually, so long as the RP is as good as the highbies, and such a notion seems to be supported by our current XP standards. And, well, none of the stuff I'm running on SD now involves any cloudkills, or even really any death magic. I suspected one thing, but hey, seems to be death-magic free.

[danielmn]

Agreed, I didn't rub elbows (IC) and the rp was poor on my end, merely giving one of MANY examples I could spout off. Enough with the personal stuff though...

If you say the servers are lowbie friendly...and that newcomers /can/ survive and that the servers have enough attention for them, cool deal then, guess you guys are covered and everyone else needs to get working on getting oas1 back up and your tech rollout in place.

Daniel

[Brokenbone]

Rather than a vault wipe or disappointment that there's no way to reasonably integrate with the long term, die hard, midlevel or higher PCs who still call the NWN1 servers home, I wonder what harm, if any, there would be to an enhanced starting level for new (or returning) joins?

"Here, start off with 2000xp and 3500 gold, which is average level 3 wealth."

It could be a lever in the start area which checks for having 1xp, in order to be triggered... much like some starting merchants have had, where they won't even talk to non-new PCs. Since it'd be a lever that you either pull, or don't pull, it'd remain your option to do a traditional level 1 start, or not.

Since many of the die hards remaining TEND to be far in excess of level 3, and usually very much enjoy having more PCs to make their world more alive, I would imagine that might outweigh any resentment (??) of incenting new joins. The only downsides I think of a plan like this are that potential resentment, and the potential for the landscape to be littered with 3500gp corpses as opposed to the 300gp corpses we're accustomed to. Still, once 3500gp is turned into gear like decent weapons, armor, consumables, etc., if it does fall into the hands of other PCs, the worth of the "haul" is cut by about 75% if selling back to merchants, though consumables would be likely added to one's own collection, at 100% value. This is just some guessing at downsides, I imagine if a program like this was piloted, close attention would need to be paid to the seriousness of any downside, either predicted or not.

Again, could be piloted on any server willing to do it, with such terms and conditions as the sponsoring server wished (i.e., "if you roll up on server A, you may travel to servers B & C who support this program, but if travelling to server D, please wait one month, as they have declined to participate in this program...)

I can't tell how far this has gotten on or off topic, but since people seem to genuinely care about ways to enjoy BOTH platforms, and support both as well, that's a potential "hit the ground running" approach if people who otherwise are staying away from NWN1, might be incented to try it out again. Those of us still enjoying NWN1 seldom mind company, and if the company can withstand more than "rat" levels of combat, good show.

[danielmn]

If you want people just in from off the street who have no OOC or IC connections to remain in ALFA1, you will have to find a way, one way or another, to make sure they don't go splat when the big boys come round...as well as having things for lowbies to do. Simple as that....

BB offers a possible solution...not one I myself would like to see, but it is a descent solution.

[Brokenbone]

A lever that grants a jackpot of gold and xp can be scripted in under five minutes.

Finding people willing to write statics, become DMs, schedule sessions for small / new groups, takes longer. Yes, it leads to a higher quality result, but its an investment being talked about, and I wonder if we really have the resources.

...

Anyhow, while my post is based in part on the occasional suggestions you'll see in the forums for enhanced starting levels, it's also based on how the RPGA does some of its long term campaigns at PnP convention type stuff (I do not participate, I just have noticed it for a long time on the WOTC site). Basically the campaign has run for a long time, and if you're a new join, depending on the date, you automatically start at a certain level, with a certain budget of gold pieces, and invited to equip yourself based on DMG or other permitted sourcebooks out of that budget. It's also how many people run their PnP games for new joins... "start at 8th, permitted resources are (insert books), and you get 50,000gp" or something.

Here's a link for what it's worth: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebxe/welcome

Again, it is meant to let people integrate quickly into a long term campaign world. I do not think ALFAns would necessarily accept signing on at a really high level with new PCs, but something like 3rd is a far cry from rolling up at 10th, like that Xen'drik RPGA thing is currently. High combat video game, 3rd with some gold in pockets at least lets you run away from many challenges, pick your battles kind of thing.

Note this is not a detailed proposal in any way, it's just a "quick and dirty" that in part takes inspiration from how one'd bring new players into small (4 guys at a table) or large (RPGA) campaigns.

I also used to oppose "starting at anything other than 1st", though I didn't post much to that effect. I.e., everyone has gone through it, everyone should go through it, type of thing. Based on the scant numbers we've got, and people lamenting that only "scheduled" play is available (i.e., the few players and DMs pick a small window in which to play, then vamoose), maybe have to try some fairly radical things (radical for ALFA, I mean - it'd be meaningless/common in PnP / RPGA) to increase density. Someone starting with some XP/GP doesn't harm my PC in any way, and it means they're a little less fragile for DMs to deal with, so the main obstacle here is principles, or fear of downside risks, which are possibly pretty limited, materializing.

[fluffmonster]

fwiw, i also have been greatly deterred from making an nwn1 PC because i have found the low/high mix to be so awkward and lethal that making it work is like...work. Since I am also a campaign-type player which basically requires that i would have to gang up with whoever is around...*shrug*.

[Mulu]

I wonder if an HDM has the authority to just level up a new PC without some formal rule changes. As has been pointed out before, starting at level 1 is not an ALFA pillar, it's just a custom. Is there really anything preventing it? I bring this up because ultimately an HDM has authority over who plays on his or her server, and with veto power comes many other powers. If we are going to trust our HDM's to maintain a balanced play environment, I see nothing preventing them from advancing a low level PC to mid level to allow it to join an ongoing campaign, other than xp guidelines which are after all just guidelines.

[danielmn]

By the by, if you are deterred from playing because of the level difference, I wholeheartedly suggest you PM FI and see if you can't get in on her action in NC...it is one of the few places I have actually felt welcomed, and the dm was acommodating. Her spots are often thoughtprovoking, little combat...so an intelligent PC can have a very big impact!

Just a thought.

Daniel

[psycho_leo]

I wonder if an HDM has the authority to just level up a new PC without some formal rule changes. As has been pointed out before, starting at level 1 is not an ALFA pillar, it's just a custom. Is there really anything preventing it? I bring this up because ultimately an HDM has authority over who plays on his or her server, and with veto power comes many other powers. If we are going to trust our HDM's to maintain a balanced play environment, I see nothing preventing them from advancing a low level PC to mid level to allow it to join an ongoing campaign, other than xp guidelines which are after all just guidelines.

Any DM, HDM or not, granting levels to a PC without previous discussion and formal authorization is guaranteed to create a shitstorm that will last for weeks.

[Lusipher]

You start at lvl 1 and work your way up. Thats how it has always been and always will remain. If its done differently then you just chucked what ALFA was about right out the window.

[MorbidKate]

You want bad feelings? Just wait until a week old level 6 PKs a level 5 that's been RPd for years. No way this should be a viable option.

Instead I would recommend RPXP scripts for the remaining NWN1 servers.If someone wants to tear them out of TPI it should still be on the ftp.

As for mixed level groups a decent DM can manage that well enough, usually through good communication with the highest level party member so the DM isn't caught off gaurd by unexpected low level moves that would likely be deadly. It's my experience that most high level players are willing and aware people who'll do what they can to make it fun for everyone.

All without the need to twink new players several levels I might add.

Kate

[Mulu]

You want bad feelings? Just wait until a week old level 6 PKs a level 5 that's been RPd for years. No way this should be a viable option.

Well, when you level up a new PC you always do it to below the level of existing PC's in a campaign, but I think Leo called it.

[dergon darkhelm]

I volunteer to have my PC be one of the ones selected for a trial free levelling pilot program.

[Brokenbone]

Looking into porting RPXP scripts from NWN1's NC to any other servers that want it may be an idea. I seem to recall that no one could ever figure out TPI's Pitlatch stuff very well, but I might be mistaken... maybe Fionn or MK wrestled them to the ground. Still, since NC isn't flooded with level 1 characters at the moment, I am going to imagine that "RPXP alone isn't enough" to change the face of the current servers.

I thought 3rd (and average 3rd wealth) was a fairly modest proposal, and unlikely to cause the happy go lucky PKing of various long term PCs of similar (?) level. Granted, if people were invited to join as level 8s or 15s or something, I think we'd be looking at a mess. I do not foresee gangs of 3rds all rolling up at once and trying to gang up / grief on long term PCs... that'd probably prove a quick end to a pilot and a server ban.

***

As to XP granting "authority", that's a DMA matter. Supposed to give "x" for RPXP, "y" for challenge, "z" for static spawns, etc., none of the guidelines talk about "+3000 if you feel like it." Still, if it turned out HDMs and the DMA liked this sort of thing, possibly after consulting their handfuls of still-loyal players (as anyone uninvolved in our world hasn't got their rules being changed on them), I guess it could be tried out.

Again, I've got a level 11 PC, and it doesn't matter to me if Joe Fighter joins Sembia with a PC1 or a PC3. I'm just happy to have additional PCs around. Better chance of non-scheduled roleplay, congregation/density tends to attract DM drop ins as well. I wouldn't go much higher than 3rd though, as 4th is when one can really hit their soloing stride if a heavy armored fighter/cleric. Having at least a "little" need to interact with others, although not vs. rats and bats, doesn't seem a bad thing.

[MorbidKate]

BB,

Fionn tackled the RPXP Script on TPI so since he's around a bit again maybe fire him a PM about it? Of course this alone isn't a fix but it is part of a blended solution that would help attract and keep people on a bit longer and therefore increase the chances of folks being on when a DM comes by.... which tempts them to come by more often

Add a few repeatable lifestyle statics (Hunting, Fishing, Mining, Smithy, etc) to earn a little bit of coin and your well on the way to attracting people and getting them together for longer periods of time, DMs included.

Kate