PA's View on Current Events

[JaydeMoon]

Holy Rage:

You insight is... hehe, insightful (man, I'm a dumB).

But I wonder if there is not a further difference?

I feel that EVERYONE agrees that lying is wrong and should not be allowed to slide.

What I think is going on, and I don't know if the separation of thought is geographical, is that those on one side seems to feel that guilt is a foregone conclusion, that those involved ARE lying, based on their belief that it is impossible to feel otherwise. Look at the following circumstantial evidence:

Those involved are members who should know better.

Since they should know better, it is obvious that they are lying and thus need to be punished.




On the other side are people saying:

You don't know what they know. It seems like they should know better, but we can't prove that they do and it is certainly possible that they don't. Without knowing, then we are willing to give the benefit of the doubt, especially given a prior track record with no indication of dishonest dealings.


This is, of course, a vast oversimplification. But it's what I feel like I am seeing.

[Veilan]

Holy Rage:

You insight is... hehe, insightful (man, I'm a dumB).

Concise, wise, accurate, on the mark, enlightening, illuminative, informative, instructive, interesting, revealing, telling, perceptive.

You're welcome luv .

[JaydeMoon]

Thank you, Veilan. You're keen!

[Veilan]

No need to thank me. I just can't pass up a chance to lord my command of the english language over someone...

[Rick7475]

Cool Holy Rage But I am Canadian



BTW Danielnm, when checking out PC's, I always shoot for wealth items, so I would have missed the stats on those PC's. An oversight probably many DM's make, but hopefully we have learned from this somehow

[Brokenbone]

Heh, Jaydincendi. Or is it FanaticusMoon?

Rusty, your sly, insulting slights are out of line. I will issue a second infra strike and invalidate the member in good standing requirement for an Admin candidate unless you cease and apologize for defaming these two and insinuating that they are the same person or supporting each other blindly. They have both been nothing but polite and calm through this, and I do not appreciate sniping.

That's a little unfair given some of the labels being applied to Rusty in this thread and elsewhere.

I would tend to second Burt here.

A thread called "PA's reaction to something" getting clarifications, INSTANTLY, from the PA's good friend (i.e., "this is what she meant") got a joke reply (not anything vile or involving rants against character, etc.). And a hastily edited joke answer from Jaydemoon. So what?

It starts to present a situation where you can truck around ALFA for years with concealed benefits, that stun the DMs who were blowing time on doing campaigns involving the involved individuals, but call someone by an incorrect forum name, and wham, discipline. The all important two infra strikes that would DQ someone from being an Admin.

It's a bit of a nasty threat... but one I can imagine being made good on in the current climate, much to my mounting disappointment.

EDIT: I guess by "years" above I mean "an allegedly unknown time period, but definitely longer than 90 days so the normal process relating to discipline couldn't be used."

[Holy_Rage]

I would tend to second Burt here.

A thread called "PA's reaction to something" getting clarifications, INSTANTLY, from the PA's good friend (i.e., "this is what she meant") got a joke reply (not anything vile or involving rants against character, etc.). And a hastily edited joke answer from Jaydemoon. So what?

It starts to present a situation where you can truck around ALFA for years with concealed benefits, that stun the DMs who were blowing time on doing campaigns involving the involved individuals, but call someone by an incorrect forum name, and wham, discipline. The all important two infra strikes that would DQ someone from being an Admin.

It's a bit of a nasty threat... but one I can imagine being made good on in the current climate, much to my mounting disappointment.

EDIT: I guess by "years" above I mean "an allegedly unknown time period, but definitely longer than 90 days so the normal process relating to discipline couldn't be used."

Thirded as far as the infra strike is concerned: when I was called "an angry and vengeful man's mouthpiece", something much harsher than a forum joke, I don't remember similar sanctions being threatened (Wynna posted before Cipher's apology and no sanction warning was contained in her post as far as that part is concerned).

Seconded as far as the rest is concerned.

[Misty]

Now I'm paranoid.

[Magile]

Now I'm paranoid.

Of what? Bunch of scrubs fightin' and shakin' things up a bit? No need to warn me, I won't post any flames after that last comment I made. Just statin', this stuff is nothin' if that's what has you worried. Folks who aren't directly involved ought to lean back and enjoy the fireworks, not to mention grab a notepad and a pencil/pen/writing utensil(sp?) and look towards the future.

Yeah, I didn't fully read the details, but rather skimmed. This stuff isn't as potent as the past problems, it's a bit lackin'.

*coughs* Oh, I mean.. shame on you! All of you, disobeying laws! Treating ALFA like... bad stuff! For shame! *glances around*

[Misty]

More about getting infra strikes from lead admin when she disapproves, as her disapproval seems inconsistent. Therefore, it seems like the threats are made at her whim.

anyway, with popcorn in hand, back to the show.

[JaydeMoon]

Several examples of not having the full story.

Sometimes trusting seems hard to do, but ALFA... we put these people here.

[Lusipher]

More about getting infra strikes from lead admin when she disapproves, as her disapproval seems inconsistent. Therefore, it seems like the threats are made at her whim.

I agree here. Wynna your quick with the threats and ban stick when it serves your purpose. It would be real easy for you to screw Rusty into not being able to run again for DMA. Your good with the big words and such, but very transparent in intent.

[Wynna]

My whimstick must be busted, cuz so far one of the two strikes I've applied has been to myself.

I've gone away and done some building. It's great therapy. While instituting a lovely golden glow into the Vault of Sages, I considered the manner of my last post and decided it to be too abrupt. Charitably, it could be called 'time saving', a necessity to deal with the 27 PMs I've received since this morning, half calling for hangings of various factions in this dirty little war, but we'll go with abrupt.

I don't do things to screw anybody out of anything and I challenge anybody to find a time I've wielded strikes to my personal benefit or at whim. Since the reason so many people are shouting at me is that I upheld the Charter by the letter of the law rather than by imposing my necessarily one-person biased interpretation of the spirit, I find the accusation of whimsicalness pretty...well...whimsical. I could, however, have stated something more to the effect that an infrastructure warning was issued last week to Rusty for reasons that I will let him elaborate on or leave alone now, and I will carry it through if need be. I could have done that. It is true, and will continue to be true. At the time it seemed to me that was between Rusty and infrastructure. Probably still is, but as openness seems to be the current watchword in disputes, probably better get that fact out before one rather than after. Pointing out that this would invalidate him from candidacy was not intended as a threat, more a recognition that I knew what was at stake and how serious I consider the bickering and nastiness between erstwhile comrades. Also, I'd like to think that if Rusty wants to run for Admin again, then Rusty realizes that behaving in a polite and factual manner rather than tossing off one-line, snide zingers to members of an 'opposing' camp is a better course of action. I put 'opposing' in quotes, because I still have a fond belief that we are all one community working towards Live together.

Oh, and Rusty and I have maintained a more than civil relationship throughout this whole ordeal. Just as FI and I and Cipher and I and Hialmar and I have. It can be done, this cooperation thing.

I'm going to go afk now, and fill little plastic Easter eggs with sugary substances and hide them in fake grass to pretend to a gullible child that a giant magic rabbit put them there. After tomorrow, I'll come back to this fantasy land of ours.

Happy Easter, all.

[Mayhem]

Screw the egos and the personalities and the attempts at justification. Screw the specifics, and lets look at the general:

Answer these nice, simple questions with Yes and No answers.

1) Did the Admins hold a vote whose sole outcome was to decide "Is lying to a DM cheating?"

2) Did all admins know, for certain, that this was the sole intent of this vote?

3) Did the majority of admins then vote that lying to a DM is not cheating?

If the answer to the first is "no" then this whole situation is a fiction.

If the answer to the second is (from the Admins that voted no") no, then I suggest a re-vote be held so that this time, all can be clear on what they are voting for, no matter how clearly it was set out the first time.

If the answer to 3 is "Yes" then I would really like the admins in question to publicly explain exactly why, in a general sense AND NOT RELATED TO THIS SPECIFIC CASE, they do not consider lying to a DM to be cheating. Because I really cannot see a single reason for voting no on that issue, and if you have a good reason, I'm honestly interested in hearing it.

It might also be nice to have a whole ALFA poll, just out of interest, to see if there is anyone else in ALFA who considers lying to a DM to be A-OK.

[paazin]

Ay, goodness. What a mess.

This may or may not apply but for a while it was OK to edit bics with Leto (is it still?) - hence this "last rebuild" may have never even happened. I know this was done to me several times and I'm almost positive it was done to the PCs in question as well. So this whole situation of 'modifying stats every rebuild' would have not really come up, as other than the first time X years ago, it never happened again.

Not sure if that has any bearing whatsoever, but eh. Might as well add fuel to the fire.