Message to the whole ALFA community (from Aelred)

[AcadiusLost]

It's unfortunate that the clothing/armor design interface was so user-unfriendly in NWN2toolset- since it used to be a nice "port of entry" for players to get their feet wet with the toolset, making a nice outfit or some custom-appearance armor for their PCs. This time around making outfits is actually pretty counterintuitive, until you get the hang of it.

Conversations are a little tricky to flowchart via a forum, but it'd be a matter of just typing up the blocks of text in a way that the builder could paste them in. Maybe a code for how they fit into the tree to preface each-

"I" (introduction, what the NPC says when convo is initiated- usually a greeting or intro)

A. options for PCs to reply with
B. options for PCs to reply with
C. options for PCs to reply with
D. options for PCs to reply with

"A" - NPC response to option A

(possibly with A1, A2, A3, A4 etc suboptions, or link back to I.)

"B" - NPC response to option B

(possibly with B1, B2, B3, B4 etc suboptions, or link back to I.)

Gets a bit messy, but should be navigable to the builder trying to toss it into the toolset. It's not that much harder to do the same thing inside the toolset though, and export the finished conversation. It's essentially the same interface that the NWN1 toolset used for conversations.

[Grand Fromage]

It's unfortunate that the clothing/armor design interface was so user-unfriendly in NWN2toolset- since it used to be a nice "port of entry" for players to get their feet wet with the toolset, making a nice outfit or some custom-appearance armor for their PCs. This time around making outfits is actually pretty counterintuitive, until you get the hang of it.

Worth noting that Mask of the Betrayer will include item and NPC wizards, and there are plugins that do this as well.

[MorbidKate]

Perhaps it would be helpful to create a Toolset Education section in the NWN2 threads? Break it up with stickies on how to build Exteriors, Interiors, NPCs, Items, Tweaking Toolset performance etc ... with links to the best guides folks have found on the Vault or elsewhere?

If we can provide How-To intruction & tips to our community members I know more will feel confident enough to help out. As it stands now, most people were overwhelmed and shocked when they first opened the new Toolset and gave up almost straight away.

Time to create a toolset learning center for those with limited free time in their lives

Kate

[ç i p h é r]

The time of Whitey's Lyceum has finally arrived. Now all we need is a "Where are those heretics now?" forum.

Aelred, you have a great passion for building and it shows, both in your work and in this post. You've been a tremendous help on WD, and I for one appreciate your efforts more than you know. If it's any consolation, I do think our dialog with the Citadel will lead to cross project collaboration, and that will, at least for WD, translate into more productivity. I hope you'll be around for that but I realize your heart is set on other things.

With any luck, we'll stumble across similar opportunities elsewhere in the NWN cosmos before we all commit mass seppuku in a fit of despair.

@NickD: If you really want to help build something, pick a server, grab source materials (like interior maps or descriptions), and take a stroll down toolset lane. Or if you want your work to be truly appreciated by all, put together some generic interiors, like inns, taverns, shops, shrines/temples, homes, keeps, and so on. The details are really up to you and your imagination, which is what this game is all about.

[Aelred]

Would it be possible to break down a large piece of work into much smaller pieces, of say things that will take a few hours to do and hand those out to people who want to help...

Nick - I'm going to be posting "building help requests" in the main NWN2 MD/Cormanthor forum for all to see - not specifically in the builders section (which only MD builders can see). The plan is to make the requests as clear, easy and detailed as possible without stepping on a volunteers creativity.

The following is just an example of how the build teams could post small projects on the forums:

Interior and NPC request for the Green Door Inn in Essembra

Source: Description based on info Volos Guide to the Dalelands (page 60)
Description: The Green Door Inn is named so not for its green front door but because it has a sacred pond dedicated to Mieliki in it's back yard (the actual "Green Door"). The Inn has two small floors. The first floor contains an entryway with a welcome desk behind which is the Innkeepers simple room. Thru the entryway is a living space with a reading area to the left - a hearth and a staircase to the right. In the center of the room on the back wall is a stained glass of Mieliki and to the right of that, a small raised platform for performing harpists. A rustic chandelier hangs above the sitting area. The room is decorated in tones of greens with many potted plants. Directly opposite the front door is the back door leading out to the pond.
The second floor: Four doors - one to the downstairs, one to a balcony which overlooks the pond and backyard and two doors to the guest rooms (one small and one large).
NPCs: The Inn is run by four half-elven ladies - one is named Lady Sharlee. (Create the NPCs however you see fit but with a different look to each one - Lady Sharlee could look slightly older than the others 3)

I have uploaded an erf of the area - named "GreenDoor" to the downloads page. It contains the bare skeleton for both floors ready to be decorated.




Please post below if you would like to take on this individual project.
PM me if you need some help with or you can also pop into IRC #alfa-builders.
(again this was just a possible example of how we could post asking for help on small projects)


_____________________________________________________________
I actually began building this interior - this is how it looks three hours into the build just to give you an idea.

[Aelred]

I had thought about writing up a collection of NPC descriptions and submitting them somewhere.

That could be posted in the NWN2: Team Collective Discussion forum, V. It's a great idea and will definitely save some time for builders and also add a richness to any NPC that might otherwise be left with a boring generic description. The four half-elf beauties I created above had a default description on the lines of "A normal female with slightly pointed ears."

PS: Thanks for the comment on my bard - because of your amazing DMing that night, I had one of my most memorable Alfa experiences.

[Marklos]

I completely agree. Being only person building ALFA 02- The Far North, is extremely disheartening and I am taking a break. Toolset burnout is far too easy, but that's because there is so much to do and so few to do it.

Noone should have to build a server on their own. If it weren't for TT and Rusty, Luskan would have never seen live. I spent two years solo building that darn server. I am not going to do that again.

There have been some great suggestions. The process for volunteer work will get easier and more streamlined. We just need the volunteers.

Let's see some contribution on the server side or we're going to lose all of our builders to burnout and the ALFA vision of NWN2 will never see live.

[ayergo]

As some others of you know, i've been working on a NWN2 server, Baldur's Gate, despite the fact that i'm not on the "official list" of NWN2 servers. I still hope to make it a part of ALFA.

Screens?

Saving my debut for the DM event. You should stop by!

[MorbidKate]

The time of Whitey's Lyceum has finally arrived.

I don't care what it's called but if people are going to help out, we need to help them learn the new Toolset. Scanning the Vault for good tutorials or even better, videos off the web takes time and it's easy to get overwhelmed over what works best and what doesn't.

When I first opened the new Toolset my first thought was that I just didn't have the free time to tackle the verticle learning curve and judging by how few are actually using the thing compared to how many planned to use it when the servers were announced I suspect I'm not alone.

RL is a bit more sorted for me (promotion, relocation, etc..) so I'm poking around the net and asking folks for useful links that'll help get me productive in the Toolset asap but a section within our website dedicated to teaching our community would certainly help generate more builders who want to help out but can't at the moment.

Kate

[ç i p h é r]

I completely agree. Being only person building ALFA 02- The Far North, is extremely disheartening and I am taking a break. Toolset burnout is far too easy, but that's because there is so much to do and so few to do it.

Noone should have to build a server on their own. If it weren't for TT and Rusty, Luskan would have never seen live. I spent two years solo building that darn server. I am not going to do that again.

There have been some great suggestions. The process for volunteer work will get easier and more streamlined. We just need the volunteers.

Let's see some contribution on the server side or we're going to lose all of our builders to burnout and the ALFA vision of NWN2 will never see live.

As long as builders insist on working strictly on their corner of Faerun, the one-or-two person build team is going to be the reality. Thus far, on the whole, we have been largely unable to compromise despite a number of attempts to narrow our collective focus, and as a result, I think it's increasingly likely that we each will fail to meet our own own goals.

This project is really in a no win situation. Either force people to work together and watch people storm out, or let people do what they want and watch build teams wither on the vine. One is no worse than the other. It's a Darwinian catch 22. *shrug*

[MorbidKate]

Or provide those who wish to help but can't with the information they need to increase the pool of builders. I dare say ALFA1 got a huge boost from community members who after a time of playing wanted to contribute, either by joining the DM ranks or by learning the toolset. It's the verticle learning curve of the new Toolset that has intimidated a lot of casual builders from getting involved.

Help them learn.

Kate

[AcadiusLost]

I suppose I take a different perspective on things- I think some of the motivation and interest does come out of having our own corners of Faerun to carve out- building is a labor of love, and works best when those doing it are really interested and inspired by the setting. It's easier to toolset NPCs, dungeons, taverns, and hidden nooks as you think about how you may be able to use them as a DM down the line.

I don't disagree that the life of the solo builder is a thankless and disheartening path to tread- most who attempt it will fall by the wayside as time goes on. But it has to be that sort of dedication that draws those of like mind to the effort, and forms the nucleus of a like-minded and functional team. My hope and belief is that, as more ALFA members see what our stalwarts have created, and learn to handle the toolset, we'll see a rennaisance of interest in contributing to the push towards NWN2.

Some of us may choose to put aside our own projects for a time to try to help others reach that turning point, but it's not a matter of simple arithmetic- there are sometimes conflicting artistic visions, communication problems, and simple lack of personal inspiration that can make it a good deal less than the sum of its parts. At this point, I think we're generally best off just trying to work on that which we are inspired to do, and keep in touch to share what insights we gain from it. When teams have specific needs, we should try to support each other as best we can.

I do have faith that we will see the enthusiasm for ALFA under NWN2 multiply once the Beta stage begins in earnest for our players. (with DM events, persistency, etc).

[Misty]

good lord. how many times does MK have to say 'help the casual contributor to contribute' before it gets done?

telling someone to grab a sourcebook and learn the canon before building automatically weeds out the casual contributor, effectively turning away offered help. The message received is that WD doesn't need help. Except that Aelred's post puts it to the lie.

So, how to help? I've no interest in the game, but writing descriptions, quest and convo trees is pretty easy. I wrote one up for SD years ago that was never used, maybe a NWN2 server would like it?

[MorbidKate]

*Shakes head*

[ç i p h é r]

Your post is awfully presumptuous, Misty. Suffice it to say, you are short on facts and drawing logical but incorrect conclusions. I did at one point invest a good deal of my time trying to get people to do the most basic of things (in virtually every facet of ALFA that I've overseen), but frankly, it only compounded my frustration because a lot of people promised to help but never actually followed through for one reason or another. The end result of that experiment was that I wasted a good deal of my own time and didn't advance the project one iota.

That's not to say that there aren't some real contributors to be found out there. Souvarine proved to me that there are. I realized pretty quickly though that I can't just take all offers of assistance as serious offers. A person has to demonstrate some level of commitment to avoid accelerating my own frustration and burn out.

In that light, the toolset does serve as an initiation of sorts. If someone simply cannot bring themselves to fire up the toolset or download a tutorial or grab a source book and read the relevant parts, then they more than likely will just compound our manpower problems. Now if we had folks around here that could commit exclusively to running a "Lyceum" type operation, things might turn out differently. But until then, I'm going to be extremely skeptical of the notion that casual contributors can impact our project in any meaningful way.

That's my view anyway, but I certainly won't stop folks from trying to do what I found to be a largely futile exercise. Kudos to you if it works out.