Election Debate in Admin Forum

indio · Post by **indio** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:01 pm

We need a term like Godwin's Law for 'those who evoke the quake to prove a point'.

I proposed the same poll to admin 2 years ago. Passed in admin but was defeated by the HDMs.

Were they too responsible for relying on fear, or were they simply expressing their point of view?

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:09 pm

People who invoke the Quake can simply be called "Quakers" - duh.

Twiggy · Post by **Twiggy** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:24 pm

indio · Post by **indio** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:02 pm

lol

Perfect.

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:24 am

My favorite wing place:

and to think I thought I had no comments worth of this thread.

JaydeMoon · Post by **JaydeMoon** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:19 am

Methinks that for the most part, whomever the admin has authority over should have a voice in who they are.

Everyone gets to vote for lead.
DMs get to vote for DMA.
Players vote for PA.

Gets sticky with TA and IA.

My 2 cents.

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:42 am

Well and that's the point, the LA has little to no direct authority over players. He can issue a veto on PA decisions. That's it.

By and large, LA is a constitutional oversight position meant as a check and balance among the other admin. Now, following your reasoning, we should restrict the LA vote to admin and their staff only? Of course, that may not be so good, as then the other admin would only usher in candidates that yay-say all their decisions. That could be equally problematic if LA had the same voting constituency as PA - suddenly, there's no chance to overturn a PA decision, or worse, there could be competition to "represent" the players.

So the DMs is a good compromise. That way, basically every contributor with an active stake gets a say. And it's not that hard to get voting rights - another motivation to step up and offer some building, scripting, DMing to the project.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:05 pm

I have to say i am of the same opinion.

Yeah, i think it would be good if players could vote for Lead Admin, but seeing as Lead Admin cannot straight up make any decision on ALFAs direction without HDM approval or Proposing the change to the CC, i do not think it would really matter if players continued to have no vote.

If a lead Admin decides to propose some radical changes to ALFA, and the DMs that we all trust our characters with agree to the proposals, we as pure players either stay or leave. The DMs look after us as players, and give us this world to enjoy and immerse ourselves in, we should be able to trust that, in the case of ALFAs direction, they will also take the players consideration as well as their own personal interests into account before casting any vote.

On the flip side, whenever Lead elections come around, nominees post up their long ass posts about why they should be elected and what they plan to do, so as the person that really should be setting the agenda and direction (I care little what the charter says, the Lead Admin should be setting the agenda and direction, not just a puppet with veto power) it would be nice if everyone could vote to say "Yeah, i like that direction" or "No, that will hurt us", so i can also see the case for allowing the vote.

Either way, as a pure player, i will be satisfied. Either i vote myself, or express my feelings to my DMs in the hope they will take it onboard when deciding their votes.

Souvarine · Post by **Souvarine** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:44 pm

I've always looked at the admin as an invisible body within a hidden sarcophagus burrowed under a pyramid of myth during the last ice age. It's as if those guys were in the underworld; the living don't see the dead nor their influence.

All members (that means players, admin, dms, you name it) should get a voice to 1-up the big boss, and it's fool proof because, as swift said, he's not a dictator, so even if the mass elects a psychotic serial killer, he'll be controlled by the HDM goons. However, it would give more visibility to the seat.

Who cares if the player vote actually means nothing and teenage mutant ninja X-men run it below the surface, at least it's some action that the lowly player will get to do. And perhaps it would motivate a few to actually get involved. Perhaps it would make people *care* about the admin? Giving them less suicidal tendencies in the process?

Of course i don't represent the majority of players who are happy to be in the blue and not having a jack to do with the admin nor do i represent the minority who actually follows their crusade to martyrdom.

Danubus fights for his ideas and i respect that. He's right when he says the image of alfa reeks a little, but at least it gives a rather good picture of the beast.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:08 pm

Alara

That could be equally problematic if LA had the same voting constituency as PA - suddenly, there's no chance to overturn a PA decision

That does not follow logically. The constiuency does not determine what decisions the PA or the LA make. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have the same constituency - do they make the same decisions? Of course not. The constituency selects a candidate to hold office, but the candidate then makes their decisions from that point on.

Leadfeather · Post by **Leadfeather** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:38 am

Wow, it has been two years and I was thinking of returning.

Is this debate still going on?

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:41 am

No, not really. Some Admin had wanted to open up voting to all folks for LA, but I think their going to wait to do something about it (imagine that). You havent missed anything really..business as usual

Duck One · Post by **Duck One** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:00 pm

Just did my bi-annual review of the forums to see how much things have changed, and found this thread to lead me to the same conclusion.

It takes filling out an application and a willingness to show up when you feel like it to be an "ALFA member"

It takes server hardward, bandwidth, and most importantly hundreds of hours of hard work, not to mention patience to put up with a lot of BS, to be an HDM.

Giving the former equal voice to the latter is courting the same discontent that fed the so-called "quake". Go back and read the discussion under the original constitutional convention, and then file this thread under "be careful what you wish for."

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:05 pm

The quake came about because we had an all-powerful, authoritarian Admin, so some of the HDMs (including you) took it upon themselves to have a little revolt, using their servers for leverage. Now, as we discuss giving the vote to an even wider group (all ALFAns) you say we court the same disaster? Well, then what you are really saying is that the HDMs should be the only ones with power (not Admin, like before, or ALFAns, as suggested here) otherwise they will act like children and pick up their toys and go home. Some system.

Oh, and bad-Duck - no thread necromancy!

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:10 pm

Thats just golden coming from you, Duck.

I still and will always stand behind Alby, Sareena, etc. They did run things sometimes with an iron hand, but it was so much better than the constant red tape and crap that has happened ever since you and your buddies ran them off from ALFA. Btw, their all doing just fine running their own little PW these days so I guess it all worked out.

ALFA today has too much debate and not enough action. We tend to take 6 months to get something done when it would take a day or a week. Thats what your legacy has helped bring about, Duck.

Thanks for that