How to bring back the people?

[I-KP]

...rolling eyes at Adanu for managing to say "If my PC dies, I'm out this community"...

I said that too! ...sort of. Admittedly, I’m an unusual case; I don’t like statics, never have, and have a habit of leaving a game after my main PC retires/dies. 1% of Tam’s XP has come from statics and ~50% has come from DM XP (currently lvl8) so the horrible thought of starting again at lvl1 (or even lvl2) is insurmountable given how rarely I've seen DMs* throughout my two years here, and the way that I play games like these in general.

* My time being DM'd by kid for a few months was a highlight.

Edit: Yikes, it's nearer three years playing here!

[Dorn]

If we're just throwing out ideas or brainstorming

2 PCs
While against this for a long time, i now see that often in my game times there is 1 or 2 others on...always on a different server than me. Having a player on 2 out of the 4 servers would allow. The temp retirement does not help me here.

Increase penalties for cheating
Lose half your levels, get kicked out etc. To allow us to implement above without necessarily MORE log checking. Let the punishment be the deterrent.

Make WHL or MS campaign servers
ALFA-normal takes place on BG and TSM with spawns and statics removed (or amended to make unfarmable). MS and WHL are destinations for DMed groups on certain campaigns. Outcome - hopefully concentrate players/DMs/builders on BG and TSM. Reduce administrative efforts of HDMs on servers with lower levels of use while still retaining the variety and beauty of these servers. Maybe if we think consolidation shoudl go further even have a TSM centric '6 months' before re-opening BG? (or vis-versa)

Increase guideline DM awards for groups in parties of 3+ by 25%
Or something like that. Yea i know it's inequitable. And noone would suffer from the inequity more than me. But...*shrugs*

Award a regular DM a RP bonus of his/her choice scaled by their efforts
A house with PS for a weekly DM over 6 months.
A steady girlfriend in town for an irregular one.
A promotion in the thieves guild/army etc
Even a string of posts in the IC thread over time about their char that would make their 'lives' more interesting.

Reverse the status quo for a 2 years campaign
"The horde has swept aside the silver marches, the armies of man fight the horde up and down 'The Long Road' and brave souls, opportunists, and trouble makers both venture behind the lines into the marches to loot or retake the lands. Similarly, the sword coast (BG) is chaotic as it tries to support the war effort and is stripped of its martial resources as they march north. Opportunists take advantage of this, the lands become lawless once more...but good folk try to make safe this final redoubt of free people in western faerun.

Adjust the lighting in TSM and add burned houses/carts everywhere and have it a place for guerilla warfare etc

I know, this one's hard.

Give more variety
ENcourage the tech guys to transfer as much of Kaedrins stuff in as possible..........that's not ridiculous.

Relaunch ALFA2
All start at one and apply all of the above. And market the fark outta it.


Reasons i would be very sad and only play ALFA becasue I have friends here:
- remove permadeath
- reduce lethality
- ANY move to relax RP/IC behaviour including 'allowing farming'
- start at level other than 1 - i REALLY like the fact we start at 1 and you have to play the newb rather than instantly RPing the champion of the world blah blah. I've never found it a problem and i have the most isolated timezone in ALFA!

If i wanted to play on a BGCSS like server. Id be there.

[Ksiel]

I will try not to ramble.

How to bring people back:

1 - As posters on this forum we should try to treat each other with more respect. "Game B" runs off far more people than the issues around "Game A". Tied to this, if you have a difference of oppinion, it is how you present it. For example, (going to use Adanu here), I agree with quite a few of his points, but until his last post where he layed it out coherently I did not agree with him at all.

2 - Those who want change, run for positions. In doing so, put a well thought out "platform" if that is what you want to call it. For example, I wanted to vote for AnalogKid. I kept waiting for him to post answering some of the questions versus the I just want change. There are enough members out here that are willing to try something different. It just needs to be presented correctly.

3 - Starting Levels - Each starting area should have a lever or NPC that grants 1000 exp. So that PC's have the option of a level 1 or level 2 start. Wealth stays at level 1 starting point.

4 - For a submitted Bio that covers - PC description, IC Demeanor/motivations, Religioius affiliations, background - 500 exp reward.

5a - Turn WHL server to the Open Application Server. It is centered between other servers. It is small. (If MS wants to be this server, fine also)
5b - Allow ALL DM's in good standing to DM the OAS. Allow DM's to "invite" new players, and it doing so by-pass the "formal application process".
5c - Trim down the formal application process to 3 questions: 1) Are you aware of the following standards in ALFA: High RP, Perma-Death, No farming, etc.. 2) Are you willing to abide by the standards in question #1? 3) Did you play on the OAS and if so under what DM?
5d - Allow PC's started on the OAS to transfer PC and their levels over to other server upon granting full membership (still start at lvl1 wealth).
5e - Allow ALFA members in good standing to take their pc's to the OAS. (tech question if this is possible. a token that allows this?) (low priority)

6 - For next year have an amnesty plan. Wipe the slate clean and reach out to players that have had issues in the past. See if we can guide them back in.

7 - If the above are implemented, take a few of our more energetic members and have a "structured" PR campaign a month before kick-off. PR consist of simply posting in other forums, e-mailing and PM old members, and set up a DM event on one of the servers for kick-off.

8 - "TRY" to Consolidate servers - I think 3 active servers with an OAS is the balance. As things grow, if the machines can handle it should be added to one of the existing servers. I understand there are tons of issues around this and it may not be a viable option.

[Adanu]

I for one am not planning to start over from one if Zyrus dies. ALFA Is awful for leveling currently, even with statics.

I always love playing those first few levels, and if I can do it twice at the same time then great!

This says a lot.

Rumple and the other admins do not have an easy job; driving the bus is challenging enough but when some of the passengers are demanding to go to the zoo while others are sniffing about how much better the museum is...

I will say this, Adanu you make some valid points here and there but your tone here and in other posts comes across as rather petulant and rather demanding; it's extremely unappealing (though I'm sure some of it may be due to frustration or whatever) and does not inspire confidence that someone like that will make for a good DMA.

I've never claimed to speak for everyone. I've claimed that I've met a lot of players who have felt like this. That being said, I'm opinionated. I'm also sick of being ignored due to 'this and that is not what we're here for!'. I'm not going to apologize for viewing things differently than you. So, I'd prefer it if we kept the Ad Hominems down and actually discuss things.

And yes, I-KPs suggestion for allowing different starting levels sounds great to me, and might even tempt me to make a new PC if Zyrus dies. T-ice, I don't like relying on statics either. I know others do. I don't.

Edit: We need one or two DMs for BG, As it is, I only see Ronan as active.That's a bad thing.

[Heero]

Still not seeing any ad hominem.

[danielmn]

Now, as far as dimrets, we have a curve for sp as far as combat, where the xp awarded is high to begin with over a time period, and slowly levels off and slopes down. You can still go out and slaughter the whole server if you want...you just won't be getting xp for it after a certain point in the downward slope is reached.

Not true at the relevant levels of below about 10. The curve down you speak of is xp per kill, which is not the relevant measure. Xp per time is. As a PC becomes higher in level, kills per time increase substantially. (Or at least potential kills for the farming -minded player). For reasons of having more spawns around that your PC is able to slaughter, not needing to play so careful, not needing to replenish per day abilities and/or restock consumables, and being able to solo spawns without risk whereas lowbies need groups.

Eventually xp per time goes down as every spawn on the server is below your PC. But that happens at, what, maybe levels 10+?

To bring people back, we need to bring people to play together. That means defeating the IC-geographic spread, and it means overcoming the level spread. Those are the two reasons I don't even bother to try ALFA right now (though a scheduled, weekly DM session would trump that).
To decrease the level spread we'd need to increase the starting level and decrease leveling rates. I'd love to play DnD E8. (It probably wouldn't be technically that hard to actually cap levels at some number (around 10?) and instead give extra wealth allowance and/or feat for every N xp gained after that? Coupled with a lvl3 start, that'd do quite a bit to make every player relevant).

Statics are assumed to have made leveling easier and thus decrease level spreads. I'd say the effect is almost obviously the opposite: Those who have the time/inclination to use the statics zoom ahead, and others are left behind.

decided to do a compassion table to see why they have 30-40 people online almost any time and ALFA been struggling to get 10.

The point is to see what they are doing good comparing to us and maybe make changes accordingly .

This is an important point that's been la

Well...

I heard from other players around about the high number of players in servers like "Baldur's gate chronicles of the sword coast" . I have rgely omitted in the discussion so far (in favor of rolling eyes at Adanu for managing to say "If my PC dies, I'm out this community" and "I'd like to run for Admin to lead this community" in almost the same sentence ). The question this beckons is, do we want to become a second BGCSS if that's what attracts players? If the answer is yes, do we gain something by copycatting instead of simply shutting down ALFA and joining them? If the answer is no, then what are the elements that we differentiate our vision with, and which to copy?

To me it seems the "player's voice that is repressed" (that at least Adanu claims) is essentially to become more like BGCSS. The problem is that this move will attract some players, and it will repel others. And doing the opposite, being more "hardcore", will also repel some players and attract others. Votes are the only way to solve this. I don't know about the "legacy members who don't play but vote to overcome any change" argument. But sounds suspiciously conspiracy-ish denial of votes in the box. It might erroneously sound like the majority of players favors radical change because those favoring radical change are always loudest? (Equally valid on points of potential change I presented as to those by Adanu)

T- I was describing the dimret currently proposed and on the table, not the one already implemented. And I certainly agree that making the low levels "easier" increases level spread, something I was adamant about toning down when in the office of the PA (I gave out numerous warnings to people to just slow the heck down)

[maxcell]

Do not listen to 'has beens'. Listen to people that have played the game recently.
I am a disgruntled lurker now.

who still has sand in her clit

[Adanu]

Now, as far as dimrets, we have a curve for sp as far as combat, where the xp awarded is high to begin with over a time period, and slowly levels off and slopes down. You can still go out and slaughter the whole server if you want...you just won't be getting xp for it after a certain point in the downward slope is reached.

Not true at the relevant levels of below about 10. The curve down you speak of is xp per kill, which is not the relevant measure. Xp per time is. As a PC becomes higher in level, kills per time increase substantially. (Or at least potential kills for the farming -minded player). For reasons of having more spawns around that your PC is able to slaughter, not needing to play so careful, not needing to replenish per day abilities and/or restock consumables, and being able to solo spawns without risk whereas lowbies need groups.

Eventually xp per time goes down as every spawn on the server is below your PC. But that happens at, what, maybe levels 10+?

To bring people back, we need to bring people to play together. That means defeating the IC-geographic spread, and it means overcoming the level spread. Those are the two reasons I don't even bother to try ALFA right now (though a scheduled, weekly DM session would trump that).
To decrease the level spread we'd need to increase the starting level and decrease leveling rates. I'd love to play DnD E8. (It probably wouldn't be technically that hard to actually cap levels at some number (around 10?) and instead give extra wealth allowance and/or feat for every N xp gained after that? Coupled with a lvl3 start, that'd do quite a bit to make every player relevant).

Statics are assumed to have made leveling easier and thus decrease level spreads. I'd say the effect is almost obviously the opposite: Those who have the time/inclination to use the statics zoom ahead, and others are left behind.

decided to do a compassion table to see why they have 30-40 people online almost any time and ALFA been struggling to get 10.

The point is to see what they are doing good comparing to us and maybe make changes accordingly .

This is an important point that's been la

Well...

I heard from other players around about the high number of players in servers like "Baldur's gate chronicles of the sword coast" . I have rgely omitted in the discussion so far (in favor of rolling eyes at Adanu for managing to say "If my PC dies, I'm out this community" and "I'd like to run for Admin to lead this community" in almost the same sentence ). The question this beckons is, do we want to become a second BGCSS if that's what attracts players? If the answer is yes, do we gain something by copycatting instead of simply shutting down ALFA and joining them? If the answer is no, then what are the elements that we differentiate our vision with, and which to copy?

To me it seems the "player's voice that is repressed" (that at least Adanu claims) is essentially to become more like BGCSS. The problem is that this move will attract some players, and it will repel others. And doing the opposite, being more "hardcore", will also repel some players and attract others. Votes are the only way to solve this. I don't know about the "legacy members who don't play but vote to overcome any change" argument. But sounds suspiciously conspiracy-ish denial of votes in the box. It might erroneously sound like the majority of players favors radical change because those favoring radical change are always loudest? (Equally valid on points of potential change I presented as to those by Adanu)

T- I was describing the dimret currently proposed and on the table, not the one already implemented. And I certainly agree that making the low levels "easier" increases level spread, something I was adamant about toning down when in the office of the PA (I gave out numerous warnings to people to just slow the heck down)

I don't know that much about BGCSS. I do know that there is a reason why DMs and players alike are burning out on ALFA steadily, and I'd like to address those reasons instead of throwing more statics out or trying to punish farmers. I don't know every single reason. I've only voiced what I myself have dealt with and what I have heard from others. Fact is, there will always be level problems with our system, no matter how much you try to tighten the noose for it. Trying to control is an incredibly slippery slope, because players will start to feel punished for playing the game if you tell them to stop playing the game, imagine that. Like it or not, farming xp is how you advance your level. Finding a way to make it work will require DMs willing to deal with the leveling issue, or require campaign type PCs. Both ideas have merit.

Still not seeing any ad hominem.

in other posts comes across as rather petulant and rather demanding..

This seems Ad Hominemish, which is why I brought it up again. My tone is civil -if opinionated- now. Bringing up up previous posts that I've admitted were a bit off from frustration helps nothing right now.

Do not listen to 'has beens'. Listen to people that have played the game recently.
I am a disgruntled lurker now.

who still has sand in her clit

And this is an actual Ad Hominem.

THIS IS NOT HELPING.

What does help is discussion on the topic, so keep it up.

[Heero]

That isnt an ad hominem. It is vrebal abuse, sure, but it aint an ad hominem.

[Rotku]

I think one thing we should do is put a level cap in place. One of the biggest things that makes DMing difficult is the large (and ever increasing) difference between high level PCs and low level PCs. If we put a cap at level 7, that will be a big step to solving that.

[Xanthea]

Multiple PCs helps the level gap issue.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

I think one thing we should do is put a level cap in place. One of the biggest things that makes DMing difficult is the large (and ever increasing) difference between high level PCs and low level PCs. If we put a cap at level 7, that will be a big step to solving that.

Or just get DMs that are willing to run higher level adventures. Instead of stunting other people.

[loulabelle]

7 - If the above are implemented, take a few of our more energetic members and have a "structured" PR campaign a month before kick-off. PR consist of simply posting in other forums, e-mailing and PM old members, and set up a DM event on one of the servers for kick-off.

I like this idea of Ksiel's that hasn't really been touched in a while. I know we've had a blanket "come back to Alfa we have... [improvements listened here]" email go out to ALL members before. Whether they were still active, inactive, banned or whatever. I remember getting it and being an inactive player at the time. Has the potential to bring back banned members and I can't believe I'm saying this... I must be getting soft in my old age, even banned people applied and were accepted once, why not give them a second chance? Everyone's older and theoretically more mature now.

[FoamBats4All]

I think one thing we should do is put a level cap in place. One of the biggest things that makes DMing difficult is the large (and ever increasing) difference between high level PCs and low level PCs. If we put a cap at level 7, that will be a big step to solving that.

Yes, by making people who play toons over level 7 leave the server. Forced retirement is not the answer. If ALFA institutes a level cap, it should be at like 15, not something super low like 7. Some builds don't even become useful at 7. Besides, putting in a cap won't solve anything, it'll just make uncomfortable DMs marginally more likely to DM someone in their comfort zone.

Let people play multiple PCs, perhaps with the restriction I posted earlier. This will increase the amount of low-level PCs.

Hold DM 'classes' to show them how to DM a level range. It's not impossible, as levels become most noticeable in high-combat situations. D&D doesn't have to be 'kick in the door'-style to be fun!

Incentivize DMs to step up, so that we get more DMs, and a higher chance of DMs being comfortable with more than their preferred level range.

The theme here is that we need more DMs. Do whatever needs to be done to get more active DMs, and it'll be a big step to actually solving the problem.

[Bohemond]

there are 100+ players rping on other nwn2 servers?

ALFA needs to steal as many of these players as possible, as quickly as possible.

Does ALFA need to be a second BGCSS? No, it just needs to be more exciting, and more accessible.

1. Take all servers off password. It should be as easy as possible for any potential player to login on any impulse. Even if this player logs in and just kills deer - who knows, maybe a deer killed his pc's family. gotta start somewhere.
2. Increase rewards. ALFA feels like its afraid to give them out. That isn't fun- getting something awesome once in awhile is! and if you're worried about overwealthing, see #3
3. Increase lethality. ALFA feels like its afraid to kill people. That's boring, and creates a static gameworld. Once low levels are fun again, less people will complain about dying. Those that still complain can reroll cleric.
4. Farming is 'allowed'. Don't waste DM or admin time on this. let the game climate regulate it. Let people go out and adventure as much as they want. ALFA's wealth problems came from dms, not 1000 rusty spears.

So basically like parts of ALFA1. Like it or not, Rick's Daggerford was a vital part of ALFA1, and TSM seemed pretty similar at launch: combat/adventure statics reward players for grouping up and going out adventuring. Groups adventuring without a DM makes it faster and easier for adhoc DMing. More groups playing without a dm, more dming, more people login.