Charter Revisions

[oldgrayrogue]

OK Mags, I'll be specific. The only real "rules" ALFA needs to run properly are the Pillars. They can be posted in the OOC login area for each server. Pretty simple. And frankly I don't think you even need all of those. Want more specifics? I would start with the 1 PC rule, do away with "ALFA spans all of Faerun" (which it doesn't), and scrap the level 1 start (oh wait, that's not a Pillar).

Everything else can be condensed into "Admin make all of the decisions in the exercise of their sound discretion for the good of the community as a whole, with a one time right of appeal to LA for abuse of discretion."

The only other "procedural" rules you need are for elections. How about "Each elected Admin serves a 6 month term automatically renewable unless they are challenged or resign, in which case a new election will be held." The same people have been sailing this ship for years, lets call a spade a spade. Oh and every election is by the entire membership. There you go, 99% of the procedural morass of unnecessary rules and standards and guidelines that stymie every decision, destroy motivation, kill volunteerism and drive players, DMs etc. away eliminated. And for your information Mags, when I was PA I floated the idea of such a change to Rotku and others, but it was apparent to me (despite their good intentions) it would likely never be accepted by the Game B loving masses that is ALFA.

Running a volunteer gaming community like a constitutional democracy with procedural due process rights etc. is silly and grossly inefficient IMHO. I already have a day job, as do most players (I think). Most people come here to play and have fun, whether as a player, DM, builder etc. The rules dominated side of ALFA is like another job, (whether you are part of the development team operating under them or just a player who has to contend with them) and an inefficient, crappy unappreciated one at that.

ALFA's roleplayers are the best around, ALFA's DMs are some of the most talented and creative I have ever encountered, ALFA's builders, scripters and techs are second to none. Ask yourself, what's left in ALFA that really sucks? The answer is obvious.

[Magile]

OK Mags, I'll be specific. The only real "rules" ALFA needs to run properly are the Pillars. They can be posted in the OOC login area for each server. Pretty simple. And frankly I don't think you even need all of those. Want more specifics? I would start with the 1 PC rule, do away with "ALFA spans all of Faerun" (which it doesn't), and scrap the level 1 start (oh wait, that's not a Pillar).

Everything else can be condensed into "Admin make all of the decisions in the exercise of their sound discretion for the good of the community as a whole, with a one time right of appeal to LA for abuse of discretion."

The only other "procedural" rules you need are for elections. How about "Each elected Admin serves a 6 month term automatically renewable unless they are challenged or resign, in which case a new election will be held." The same people have been sailing this ship for years, lets call a spade a spade. Oh and every election is by the entire membership. There you go, 99% of the procedural morass of unnecessary rules and standards and guidelines that stymie every decision, destroy motivation, kill volunteerism and drive players, DMs etc. away eliminated. And for your information Mags, when I was PA I floated the idea of such a change to Rotku and others, but it was apparent to me (despite their good intentions) it would likely never be accepted by the Game B loving masses that is ALFA.

Running a volunteer gaming community like a constitutional democracy with procedural due process rights etc. is silly and grossly inefficient IMHO. I already have a day job, as do most players (I think). Most people come here to play and have fun, whether as a player, DM, builder etc. The rules dominated side of ALFA is like another job, (whether you are part of the development team operating under them or just a player who has to contend with them) and an inefficient, crappy unappreciated one at that.

ALFA's roleplayers are the best around, ALFA's DMs are some of the most talented and creative I have ever encountered, ALFA's builders, scripters and techs are second to none. Ask yourself, what's left in ALFA that really sucks? The answer is obvious.

Next time, use this as your post instead of just the off-the-cuff "cut 99%" thing -- since, y'know, this is actually useful information.

edit: That is to say, I appreciate you actually EXPLAINING everything. Not a jab.

[Adanu]

OK Mags, I'll be specific. The only real "rules" ALFA needs to run properly are the Pillars. They can be posted in the OOC login area for each server. Pretty simple. And frankly I don't think you even need all of those. Want more specifics? I would start with the 1 PC rule, do away with "ALFA spans all of Faerun" (which it doesn't), and scrap the level 1 start (oh wait, that's not a Pillar).

Everything else can be condensed into "Admin make all of the decisions in the exercise of their sound discretion for the good of the community as a whole, with a one time right of appeal to LA for abuse of discretion."

The only other "procedural" rules you need are for elections. How about "Each elected Admin serves a 6 month term automatically renewable unless they are challenged or resign, in which case a new election will be held." The same people have been sailing this ship for years, lets call a spade a spade. Oh and every election is by the entire membership. There you go, 99% of the procedural morass of unnecessary rules and standards and guidelines that stymie every decision, destroy motivation, kill volunteerism and drive players, DMs etc. away eliminated. And for your information Mags, when I was PA I floated the idea of such a change to Rotku and others, but it was apparent to me (despite their good intentions) it would likely never be accepted by the Game B loving masses that is ALFA.

Running a volunteer gaming community like a constitutional democracy with procedural due process rights etc. is silly and grossly inefficient IMHO. I already have a day job, as do most players (I think). Most people come here to play and have fun, whether as a player, DM, builder etc. The rules dominated side of ALFA is like another job, (whether you are part of the development team operating under them or just a player who has to contend with them) and an inefficient, crappy unappreciated one at that.

ALFA's roleplayers are the best around, ALFA's DMs are some of the most talented and creative I have ever encountered, ALFA's builders, scripters and techs are second to none. Ask yourself, what's left in ALFA that really sucks? The answer is obvious.

Next time, use this as your post instead of just the off-the-cuff "cut 99%" thing -- since, y'know, this is actually useful information.

edit: That is to say, I appreciate you actually EXPLAINING everything. Not a jab.

OGR basically touched on most of what I was going to say, but he beat me to it.

As it stands, I usually don't try explaining things because usually most people simply don't listen. In this case, I've been hearing that admins consider players ungrateful leeches? I don't know if that is true or not, but it does create a situation where it makes people feel like their reasonings wouldn't matter, since they are 'leeches' anyway.

[Veilan]

In this case, I've been hearing that admins consider players ungrateful leeches? I don't know if that is true or not

This actually made me chuckle, because it's a well known fact that I would call you a leech to your face if such were my opinion.

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm a player myself .

[hollyfant]

How about those in favour of a change propose an actual change. Just rewrite a portion of the Charter (or all of it), and put it to a vote. The ol' "run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it"-thing. Get enough support, and no Admin shall deny you.
Unless he's being an ass.

Something might change. Or it might not. Either way, you'll have tried.

We all know all sorts of things are "wrong" in ALFA. So put in an effort, and make it right.

[Blindhamsterman]

How about those in favour of a change propose an actual change. Just rewrite a portion of the Charter (or all of it), and put it to a vote. The ol' "run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it"-thing. Get enough support, and no Admin shall deny you.
Unless he's being an ass.

Something might change. Or it might not. Either way, you'll have tried.

We all know all sorts of things are "wrong" in ALFA. So put in an effort, and make it right.

In reply to this, I put forward Swifts earlier reply:

Id prefer a better proposal be put forward rather than revoting on the same one.

If we want to do 2 PCs, then lets not be different from every other PW just for the sake of being different. 2 PCs that must be on different servers. Existing rules for existing bad behavior (muling, looting your own corpse etc) already exist to cover potential abuse. The only issue is that will limit where DMs can have their characters thanks to the archaic 'Dont DM where you play' rule (another one that few other PWs employ, but thats another fight for another time)

2 PCs: Yes, No, Abstain.

Ƥøا simple.

and in reply to swifts reply, I vote 'yes'

<edit>

minor elaboration, the reason why swifts suggestion appeals is its simplicity, we here at ALFA do love to over complicate everything.

[NickD]

This actually made me chuckle, because it's a well known fact that I would call you a leech to your face if such were my opinion.

I can confirm that Veilan is always insulting people to their faces.

[Heero]

Veilan is firm but fair like Robert Mugabe.

[Rotku]

In this case, I've been hearing that admins consider players ungrateful leeches? I don't know if that is true or not

This actually made me chuckle, because it's a well known fact that I would call you a leech to your face if such were my opinion.

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm a player myself .

You're the king leech then!

[Veilan]

You're the king leech then!

I should totally make a crowned leech my avatar now .

Though, to be a little more serious again - I am not sure I am a big fan of hearsay being basis to make such insinuations. If indeed any of the current Administrators said such, I would like to know so I can have a chat with them. So far, working with them, I have been convinced that in fact all care deeply about the members and this project, even if they have different ideas of what may or may not be best.

If there is no evidence at all to this, then I am curious as to what constructive or gainful addition to the thread it was.

[NickD]

[rant]If I were allowed 2 PCs, it'd keep me around longer this time for sure. It would likely even bring other players back, players who - like me - got bored of playing the same character, but didn't want to retire the character they've put so much into.

But, realistically, two PCs is not the silver bullet solution to ALFA's flagging memberbase. The problem isn't that people want to play more than 1 character. The problem isn't that we have rules and standards in place either. My brother won't join ALFA because he doesn't want to have to fill in an application form and he doesn't like the idea of other people telling him that he's playing his character wrong (a problem ALFA has had for as long as I have played here). But then his favourite part of the game is creating powerbuilds, so he's not a good fit for ALFA anyway.

The problem is that ALFA doesn't change fast enough, and allowing only one character is only a part of that.

By change I don't mean new servers or significant changes to existing servers (although I've been buzzing for the past couple of weeks with all the fantastic new parts of BG and an entirely new amazing server that have popped up since last played here) ... Those changes are high cost for the reward and it's not fair to complain about them not eventuating. Quests are lower cost, but have limited reward. Randomised spawns would be really nice though. Like the brilliant ones that used to be on BG (I think Riotnrrd had a lot to do with those).

The change I mean are the low cost character based changes. New players and characters to play with (I've met 1 new PC in game in my 2 weeks back) and getting DMed are big changes. But those are external changes and we can't just make them happen without giving people a reason to join/come back.

2/multiple PCs are a form of change. Being able to switch between characters, trying something new, playing with other characters of a similar level you normally wouldn't play with - these are good changes.

Faster levelling is another form of significant change. If a character is the same level after months (or even a year) of solid playing, then there's something seriously wrong. Sure, they could form new relationships (if there were any new players to meet) and hang out with their friends, but really, without the excitment of levelling and gaining new skills and powers, there's no real change.

I'm guessing a large percentage of you are happy with the way things are. I'm sure plenty of you don't want there to be multiple PCs and don't like the idea of gaining levels faster. I'm sure there are some of you that believe that having a character with multiple digits in their level is a sin. That's not surprising; you're the ones who haven't left yet.

Ultimately, without change, any environment becomes stagnant, predictable and boring.[/rant]

[Hialmar]

I don't like the +1 posts but frankly NickD sums up a lot of what I think on this issue.

Like him I don't think doing over with the 1 PC rule is the panacea but it certainly shows that we are willing to try to move and not just stay in our boring quicksand.

[I-KP]

My brother won't join ALFA because he doesn't want to have to fill in an application form and he doesn't like the idea of other people telling him that he's playing his character wrong (a problem ALFA has had for as long as I have played here).

This I can relate to. A couple of friends of mine were put off joining for the same reason; a great shame because they are both excellent RPers. When I joined I encountered exactly this kind of 'finger wagging' almost immediately via IRC in the form of a bizarre tirade from someone about my intended character before they'd even met her; not exactly a sterling introduction to the community on balance, but one squelches and moves on. Interview anxiety is very real de-motivator and not for this reason alone I feel that OAAs (open access areas, as opposed to an entire server) on one or more of the current servers would be a beneficial move.

[dergon darkhelm]

Just to be on the record.

I don't that any of these minor changes to game play, 2 PCs, more PrCs, lvl 3 start, wealth standards, (or whatever is your own pet complaint) would have a long term significant effect on the ALFA player population. Neither is it ALFA's cumbersome pseudo-democracy that is keeping players from logging in. N

We need:


24/7 DM coverage. Now that would bring players in game. People come to ALFA to play D&D in a persistent world. D&D requires a DM.

I understand that I have just stated something that is unlikely to occur. I bring it up because all this other little stuff is just nibbling around edges.

[Blindhamsterman]

True Dergon, however the other changes are things we can guarentee to change if the motion to do so was agreed on. These things can then help draw other folk in. Especially if we were to use Sands idea of an open area on all servers to help draw some folk in too.

We know we need DM coverage at all times, but the limited player base we have makes that an unlikely occurance, especially when it can be very hard to get motivated to DM in the first place when you have one of the following:
a) no players in your timezone
b) too many restrictions
c) issues with players
d) a dry season in the idea department

The more players we can draw in through other means the better, these can then be headhunted by the DMA to become DMs.

I'd Suggest the following therefore:

• 1) Move for a two PC rule ALA Swifts proposal
  
  2) More interesting and diverse content (this is being worked on thanks to our awesome tech department (thanks AL, Zelk, Ronan and Bas)
  
  3) Open a small number of areas (ideally player hub areas) on each server.
  
  4) DM headhunting by Player and DM Admins.