Why the static quest XP reduction?

[fluffmonster]

AL, you know this isn't about not being able to change values, though I will point out that in the 5 years history of this place nudging rewards upwards is rarely relevant.

This is about the level 1 doldrums. Statics *have* to be an available vehicle to get out of level 1. I understand and agree that DM xp is better, but for at least some of us (and perhaps many) this alternative is simply not available or relevant. Evaluating statics entirely on their own insular independent risk/reward basis counting every xp entirely misses this point. 33 vs 25 xp...percentage terms relative to each-other seems like a big deal, but you put it in the context of player advancement its *only* significant to a level 1, and thus the downward adjustment can quite reasonably be seen as merely condemning PCs to level 1 for longer.

Let me ask this...how many combats will a PC have to go through to get a PC to level 2 on statics alone? There are like 3 in RM that don't require any combat to do, if that many. Is it even possible now to level on statics alone? Would doing so get you labeled as an abuser for doing them all? It should not be so hard to understand why this is so discouraging.

[Dragoness]

I think it took me about 3 weeks worth of RP and DM-given XP to get to level 2. I'm not complaining at all, but yes, I can understand the frustrations newbies might have if there is no DM around or no one to RP with so they're pretty much stuck trying to do statics instead.

[Sintaqx]

Fetch and Carry statics are often the Low Level character staple. A while ago I worked on creating a series of 20 quests that would give a total of 1500 xp and take the characters roughly 6 RL hours to finish. Some were repeatable and would be in TSM like picking up a heavy load in Rivermoot, carrying it to High Hold, picking up another load there and returning for the reward gold/xp. Rinse and Repeat no more than 10 times to various destinations, reward 40xp each trip.

I've not been paying much attention to the rat-race, being a wilderness oriented stealth character. It took me almost 30 hours over 2 weeks to reach level 2, I played with the scouting statics, but everything else was the rpxp loop and combat kills (mostly soloing goblinoid/gnoll targets). Level 2 and 3 came along a little faster as increased durability equated to increased risk and reward. In a sense the various spawns I found served as repeatable statics, but in that process I have probably explored nearly every outdoor/wilderness map on the server(including a few I don't think I should have found).

The point of this is if I were a different kind of character, one without a drive to explore everywhere and take some frankly stupid risks, I would be more reliant on xp from statics and DMs to provide the XP to level. DM xp is a commodity as they cannot be everywhere at once, so for characters who for some reason are unable to participate in the events the statics are really the only thing left to them. The fact that people who are participating in the events can also run the statics means they are ahead of the game, but that is life. Someone who can only play a few hours a week (and never catch an event) shouldn't be penalized because someone else can potentially play 40 hours a week, hit every DM event and run the statics.

[Amar]

Agreed Fluff, ive logged probably 4 full days of play time and have gotten DM'd for once.

Ive gotten DM XP twice for RP, and both times it was the low end 15xp/hr because my character chooses to be quiet rather than talkative so its the "OMG Hes not talking bad RP"

Total of around 200xp from DMs, being on every night and most afternoons for a week straight.


I wish it were feasible for me to get DM time, but as a player who CANNOT attend regular sessions, and doesnt have any DMs running anything when i CAN play, thatll never happen.

[Sintaqx]

Let me ask this...how many combats will a PC have to go through to get a PC to level 2 on statics alone?

I can answer this with a rough guess, but in the ~30 hours it took me to slaughter my way from level 1 to 2 I think I killed 12 gnolls, 10 goblins (of various xp), 6 kobolds, and maybe 12 wolves. Solo. Outside of statics, so the bonus xp a static gives would reduce this. Of course this also means that there was no gold earned either (no drops) where the statics would give a few hundred gold as well.

Edit: I don't recommend the course I took. You never have money for healing potions, and I dropped to 1 or 2 hp on every 3rd combat. It takes a long time to heal up naturally.

[Mikayla]

I think it may bear reminding folks that one reason no one got much DM time for the last couple of weeks is that the DMs were not able to log on. This does not mean that now that they are able to log on suddenly everyone will get DM time, but .. I dunno, I think its important to recognize that the lack of DM time many people experienced was, at least in part, due to technical problems beyond the control of the DMs (until, through the diligent work of AL and others, the problem was circumvented).

[Sintaqx]

A good point, Mik. I have seen evidence of greater DM activity as of late too, which I am sure everyone is glad to have. 'course I still think it is best to have statics enough to get a character to level 2 in between 5 and 10 hours of play without DM assistance (though not necessarily without other player assistance).

[HATEFACE]

This is about the level 1 doldrums. Statics *have* to be an available vehicle to get out of level 1. I understand and agree that DM xp is better, but for at least some of us (and perhaps many) this alternative is simply not available or relevant. Evaluating statics entirely on their own insular independent risk/reward basis counting every xp entirely misses this point. 33 vs 25 xp...percentage terms relative to each-other seems like a big deal, but you put it in the context of player advancement its *only* significant to a level 1, and thus the downward adjustment can quite reasonably be seen as merely condemning PCs to level 1 for longer.

I suppose I should rant on this:
Speaking as a player whose characters remain in the lvl 1-5 category their entire ALFA career; I dunno fluff. I've had plenty of fun as a lvl 1 player maybe I'm alone in that sort of thinking maybe I'm not. It occures to me that "The lvl 1 doldrums" you speak of must be on the side of players who've reached lvl 8-15 and now have to play as a lvl 1. A pain in the ass; I'm sure but it should be taken with a grain of salt. I agree with you that the downward adjustment can be seen as condeming PCs to lvl 1 for longer but for those of us used to that sorta thing it's not a big deal. What is a big deal is abuse of a system if there is abuse at all. Fetch and Carry statics are boring as hell but I suppose you have to start somewhere. . .
















. . .as a dockworker/mailman/shipper/reciever/UPS/Fed-ex/postmen/eBay salesperson/ go-between-guy everywhere, all the time. - Screw you and your culmination of events that led you from a dirt farming shit shovellin' peon to a lvl 1 paladin! Take this absurd weighty box and deliver it, You useless fuck, you!!

Maybe, call me crazy, but perhaps there are meaningful things lvl1 PCs could do in small ways.

[HATEFACE]

I think it may bear reminding folks that one reason no one got much DM time for the last couple of weeks is that the DMs were not able to log on. This does not mean that now that they are able to log on suddenly everyone will get DM time, but .. I dunno, I think its important to recognize that the lack of DM time many people experienced was, at least in part, due to technical problems beyond the control of the DMs (until, through the diligent work of AL and others, the problem was circumvented).

That's correct Mik, a lot of the DMs were having problems with portriats or whatever. Cut 'em some slack guys.

[Mikayla]

This is a totally personal observation (meaning, just MY point of view and experience, not anyone elses unless they agree) but ...

I have a "Live" 14th level PC on Sembia (16th level if you count ECL) who has ridden dracoliches, killed glabrezu, led armies, built castles, slept with Graz'zt, etc etc etc.


And I am having WAY more fun playing my low-level PC on TSM right now. Thats no comment on the Sembia DMs, by the way, who run a great server and who have treated me very well, it is just a comment on how fun it is to play something fresh and new. I dunno - right now, the low level play is more fun than the high level play (for me, that is - not saying this applies to anyone else).

[indio]

I ran my XP reward change suggestions past them in the build forum before implementing them, but they were fundamentally my call, which I felt entitled to make after spending 12-odd hours debugging/testing/fixing various aspects of the quest system and the specific triggers/conversations/creatures involved.

After all you've done AL you're entitled to do anything with the mod you choose. I don't think anyone would ever question your entitlement, least of all me. I prefer rewards to be higher, but that's no criticism of your decision. That's just how I like the Lv1 problem to be solved. For me it's the victory of practicality over ideology. Lv1, and Lv2 in many ways, are little more than a chance for PCs to begin discovering who they are as adventurers. My expectation is that by Lv3 I get a clear sense of who you are when I DM you. Before then, in terms of skills and personality, you're still finding your feet.

[fluffmonster]

...It occures to me that "The lvl 1 doldrums" you speak of must be on the side of players who've reached lvl 8-15 and now have to play as a lvl 1. A pain in the ass; I'm sure but it should be taken with a grain of salt. ...

. . .as a dockworker/mailman/shipper/reciever/UPS/Fed-ex/postmen/eBay salesperson/ go-between-guy everywhere, all the time.

Maybe, call me crazy, but perhaps there are meaningful things lvl1 PCs could do in small ways.

I have gotten to lvl8 before, but that's the max for me. Low to mid level PCs are my standard fare, i've probably spent more than half my lifetime play here lvl6 or lower. I fucking hate level 1 though. First level makes me not want to play.. I am here to play an adventurer, and as you indirectly point out lvl 1 is pretty crappy for adventuring.

This isn't me bitching about lack of DM time either. It is what it is and I accept that, no complaints. Mostly though, I am dissappointed...I thought we were going to give PCs more to do without DMs, I thought we were going to get over our fear of static content.

[darrenhfx]

Again I'll point out that new content is very close to being released.

Glad to read of of the opinions on the matter, and as long as I'm HDM I can assure you that the rewards can be adjusted in either direction according to what we're seeing in game.

[Magile]

Numerous people have actually hit the nail on the head in this thread, and I don't mean the rat race debate.

The statics, even as they are now, are enough to get you to level two with DM interaction. The situation for the last while was, of course, DMs couldn't log on in general. Those that understood the scenario did what they could, those that didn't have been seen to complain (and I think some may have in this thread), but that's just a matter of ignorance (and not in a bad way) and not trying to be a jerk. In perfect theory, a player would have a DM session or two and then finish the statics to get to level two. I know Squamatus' PC, who has recently been made, has done statics and got in on one small DM event (Holy Rage's) and was nearly level two from that. Mikayla has already pointed out that she, when she was able to advance to level two so quickly (and myself included), received two DM events while doing the statics... which perfectly fits the theory and is still viable even with the static experience reward being smaller.

A big situation with TSM right now is also the fact that it holds the entire NWN2 playerbase. That's a lot of playerbase to have to appease, so you have to cut them a break once in a while. Darrenhfx has stated he wishes for more DMs, and they have even made a post about it in the General Forum about a week or two back, they are trying to fix the problem so the statics aren't the only thing on people's minds. I would imagine if there were two more DMs on the team, the playerbase wouldn't be screaming for blood when the statics have been lowered a bit.

I may not be the best person to add to this thread, though. As far as I'm aware, I have had a healthy mix of RPXP, DM XP and Static XP to have my PC get to where he is (Mik's PC as well), but I'm not going to pester a DM to check every minute of my log to be sure of that. This is just my two cents on the matter. I personally agree with AcadiusLost in many points he said (although the one he mentioned about players complaining of nothing to do after burning through statics... I dunno if I did or not, I hope I didn't), but it seems like he's being made out to be public enemy #1 in this case.

Anyway, just wait and see what happens, folks. Through all the crap and drama that has started in this server's three weeks of Live, you have to admit that the team has done a hell of a job and has done its best to appease the majority of the playerbase.

[Mikayla]

Well said Mags.

And I dunno, because I am feeling warm and fuzzy let me echo Indio; I don't mind the statics giving more xp like they used to, but on the other hand, I totally support AL given all that AL has done for us and NWN2.

I would also like to point out how good the TSM crew and AL have been OUTSIDE of the in-game stuff. I needed a rebuild to change my deity field - Wynna made special time just to do it. I needed to get my quests updated after the rebuild - I told Darren about this, and literally within 5 minutes he had contacted Acadius who turned around and did the update and BAM, I was done. I don't get customer service like that from companies I pay money too!

Anyway, while TSM may not be perfect, and the quests may not give out all the xp I might like them to (even if its for others at this point) I still want the TSM DMs and Acadius to feel the love - I know I and others really appreciate what they have done and are doing.