ALFA & RP Spells

[Ronan]

BB, I wasn't offering to add non-core spells. D20 only, with a few select ones from the FRCS. I put these in NWN1 and I don't remember a single complaint from anyone.

As a DM I'd muuuuch rather know what RP spells my PCs know and cast because its enforced in-engine, rather than "I know I cast Firebrand, but I use it as a placeholder for Teleport, really!". Putting stuff in bics > buried in the forums.

Word of Recall is easy because it can be implemented, as can Greater Teleport. Teleport is the harder one and will require a non-canon implementation. I'd suggest a longer caster time be added to it so its not a get out of death free cards (those are only given out at level 13, damnit).

Fly I just left out.

DD (or a teleport targeted somewhere other than the caster) was line-of-sight only. I mostly used it for getting unstuck.

[NESchampion]

Teleport is the harder one and will require a non-canon implementation.

Care to post your suggestion? What about Teleport requires non-canon, the chance of winding up off target?

[Castano]

the way we do it on MS is that DMs have the absolute right to tell you your RP spell failed if they do not want to deal with it - this includes teleports etc. And we make players agree to such a rule via PM. We do not adjudicate the DM's decision to say no, we don't care about their reasoning, if you die in a cave you could have teleported out of tough...the monster killed you while you were trying to cast the spell, the cave is a wild magic zone etc...make up a logical reason for why you died and roll a new PC.

RP spells are fun when used with a DM who has time for them, but managing a 5 person party with numerous requests for special non engine rolls etc. defeats the purpose of using NWN2 as a game engine - you can come to my house and we can use the dining room table if you want a PnP session that bad - just bring food/beer.

The rest is just general fairness - that is, do not F5 (old nwn1 DM kill button - since conveniently relocated right next to heal) PCs, let the players get them killed on their own.

[Ronan]

Care to post your suggestion? What about Teleport requires non-canon, the chance of winding up off target?

Yeah, the spell can send you wildly off target. Currently we don't have any way of figuring out which area the PC should end up in, or even how far he's trying to teleport. We could add this functionality, but its a lot of work for tech and builders just to support one spell few PCs will ever cast. The "similar area" result is nigh-impossible to support, and judging a PC's familiarity with an environment is also a bit of a pain.

So my suggestion is to increase the casting time of teleport, and make any result other than "on target" result in mishap damage to the PC(s). Let a PC "study" an area by casting teleport in it, and instead of selecting a destination, pick "mark area" or somesuch.

Teleportation into area(s) could be blocked with local variable flags (actually the marking would be what is blocked).

If DMs want they could run teleports in the standard PnP way, but at least the engine would support them when they aren't on.

...I'm by no means attached to this specific implementation, its just something off the top of my head.

[t-ice]

Even if we have blank spells for placeholders to some spells, it doesn't mean every spell from the books have to be included. Fly was already mentioned as something that probably doesn't and shouldn't be. Teleport and similar are likely some of the most difficult ones to do, so why start there.

The fact a placeholder for RP spells can be prepared doesn't mean DMs have to accept these spells. The PC still should ask beforehand, and tell the DM what rp spells are being prepared as those blanks. Having those blanks to prepare just helps facilitate rp spells if and when they happen.

The spell description of the blank spell should state that they work only with a DM and require pre-approval of the DM currently on to be used. Yes, those blanks might lead someone to think they entitle him/her to use whatever spells dug up from where-ever. Best to tackle the misconception head on, as opposed to deny something that helps in other circumstance because someone might leap to wrong conclusions.

Generally, if and when taking in effects not supported by the engine, I think it's a good idea to just blanket say that the time the action takes is by default 10mins. This basically makes them not useable in combat, which needs to follow the engine, but still possible for rp flair. Like teleport and druid wildshaping to a bird to escape, for example.

[Blindhamsterman]

Teleport is likely a good one to implement however, as we've at least 4 wizard PCs high enough to actually cast it.

Ronans idea for implementation sounds pretty reasonable, would just be a case of ironing out exactly how much damage such a spell did to folk.

[NESchampion]

The fact a placeholder for RP spells can be prepared doesn't mean DMs have to accept these spells. The PC still should ask beforehand, and tell the DM what rp spells are being prepared as those blanks. Having those blanks to prepare just helps facilitate rp spells if and when they happen.

The spell description of the blank spell should state that they work only with a DM and require pre-approval of the DM currently on to be used. Yes, those blanks might lead someone to think they entitle him/her to use whatever spells dug up from where-ever. Best to tackle the misconception head on, as opposed to deny something that helps in other circumstance because someone might leap to wrong conclusions.

Agree entirely; if I intended to have RP spells prepared for a session beyond bog standards like Detect Magic I'd be checking with the DM from the get go, just like with existing placeholders like Spider Climb.

Generally, if and when taking in effects not supported by the engine, I think it's a good idea to just blanket say that the time the action takes is by default 10mins. This basically makes them not useable in combat, which needs to follow the engine, but still possible for rp flair. Like teleport and druid wildshaping to a bird to escape, for example.

This seems reasonable as well; DMs can circumvent it if they feel fit to do so without forcing their hand unnecessarily with a half dozen requests each session to teleport or use gaseous form in combat while still allowing PCs to buy / learn / utilize a number of useful spells with DM approval each session. Currently we have no system for tracking such buying / learning though; would love to see more placeholders put in and available through shops / as rewards or loot.

[NESchampion]

So, any feedback from our other two HDMs?

[Heero]

I think we need shadow magic. Lets make that first.

[Galadorn]

We need Reincarnate implemented, so Bu can reincarnate dying PCs on the spot into fun and exotic races 24/7.

that's not hard to do... ready set go!

w00t

[NESchampion]

Anything? Should Ronan go ahead with creating RP placeholders, or an actual solution for Teleporting?

[Brokenbone]

Bump, as I'm curious too, saw a mention of Dimension Door in a "coming next hak" related reference, wondered if placeholders etc. getting added and if the presently Irene-offline DMA had any words to add... like even just verifying "case by case DM discretion" or something like that.

Someday, hearing what the "core" books are would be good too. There are some nifty spells all over the place, lots of which cannot be simply looked up on the SRD online. They take a pdf or real book.

[t-ice]

Well, I thought this wasn't only about teleport. Regardless of wheter teleport, or dimension door, or whatever and that thing gets implemented, RP spell placeholders would still be beneficial.