ALFA's Faerun

[Ithildur]

Hm. I failed to extrapolate that kind of message from what you wrote, based on reading... what you wrote. Maybe it's just me.

While we're at it... don't we have enough of these posts by now? I feel like I'm watching a rerun.

[dergon darkhelm]

Let's say that the level for the average healthy but unremarkable adult is level a 3 commoner. Let's say that the average "green" recruit is a level 3 warrior. Let's say that the average veteran soldier is a level 6.

Now that's just very different from the tabletop AD&D PnP world that I grew up with.

In those D&D games the vast majority of all people were commoner 1. A character with even 1 level in a PC class was a relative badass. A few PCs levels and you started to really pull away from the pack... be special ... be a real adventurer.

I want it to take (all on average of course) one month for a fresh character to get to level 6. I want it to take six months for a character to get to level 9.

That seems fast to me.... but that's just me.

My ALFA PCs have all had a similar advancement pattern that was more like level 2 at 1 week, level 6 at 4 months, level 9 at one year, level 12 at 2 years. (I haven't gotten a PC past level 12 yet). That has felt about right, allowing DMs and players to adjust to the incremental gain in power.

_____

I long for the tabletop days of my youth and early adulthood. Fundamentally what I want from ALFA is for someone to help recreate that tabletop gaming experience.

In that way I have no problems with a high magic system.... that's D&D... all those spells and special abilities and magic items are all part of the tabletop game I'm trying to recreate. Yes, I am aware that DM, scripting, coding for that high magic is challenge, but I hope the people that do that stuff mostly find it worth it.




If I could change one thing about ALFA - I would cut out all of the delivery statics. I don't like 'em. Just personal taste.

[Adanu]

How is high level magic setting breaking when we have so many rules and counters for a lot of it, and the description of the setting itself clearly states that the 'commoner world' and the 'adventurer world' are clearly different and more or less seperated. The common guard on the street is basically a mook. It's the higher ups that you gotta watch out for. Magic is all about options, and adventurers, guilds, churches and so forth have them in spades.

This is a world where gods use mortals as pawns in a game of very long term chess, and keep in each other in check with magic and might.

As for the epic deeds bit... I'm going to have to disagree. Not every PC wants to do epic deeds, and not every epic deed need be done by PCs.

[kid]

I agree with all the ideas, thoughts and suggestions.
A shame they contradict each other.

[Swift]

We're simply reaping the consequences of what we've been sowing for the past several years, incrementally making the game easier and less lethal and giving way to the 'breeze through low levels' trends.

This +1 million. We took care to tailor the game to people coming in, but rarely for the people who were already here.

Seems like that's what people kept wanting, and now that we have it, they don't play much.

Which tells me what every single tech support person and computer retail employee already knows: People don't actually know what the fuck they want. They think they do, but they actually don't.

We changed the things that made us stand out from the pack in the beginning (ie low magic, relatively slow advancement, high roleplay) and are now 'just another' roleplay world fighting for the ever dwindling player base. Go us. Faerun might be High Magic, but that was not the Faerun we used originally that got us our niche in the first place.

Getting to (lvl) 6 is a right

is utter nonsense. I really think fundamentally your gaming tastes are a poor fit for ALFA, and that says it all. *shrug* Nothing wrong with those tastes, they just don't fit ALFA well. And oddly enough I note that you just enjoyed a campaign with Rumple where 'Getting to lvl 6 is a right' would have made no sense.

It used to be the case that such tastes did not fit into ALFA, but that was back in the day where if you saw a level 6 walking around (that wasn't a bling machine from Daggerford) you actually stopped for a second and went 'whoa, that guy has seen some shit. Holy crap he has like, 65 hit points, he is a machine!'. That is not this ALFA any more. It has been quite pointedly said to me that what I think ALFA should be (ie what it used to be) is no longer what ALFA is and should just get used to it, so that tells you how much we have toned the world down.

[Adanu]

Swift seems to be under the impression that making levels a bit easier to get automatically diminishes the desire to keep going.

We're not an MMO. We're a roleplay world. Levels should only matter for power and prestige IC. We still have that 'oh shit, he's seen some stuff' feeling for higher levels. We're just not doing it at 6 anymore, we're doing it at 10+, which is how it should be IMO.

[Zelknolf]

Seems to me that we're lower magic than Faerûn (Faerûn contains epic magic; ALFA does not), lower advancement than Faerûn (you have to win about a dozen fights at CR to level up by fighting in the source books, while you need to win 100-200 here), fairly-low crafting compared to Faerûn (but variable; being on a server where a DM is your friend obviously improves your standing), and fairly-low rezzing compared to Faerûn (it's "every time" according to the source books; if your friends can't get you back, you get a new PC at a level and equipment kit that reflects what you'd look like if you got rezzed-- here it's "probably not" with the lack of a rezz meaning you have to get a new PC at level 1).

That said, I'm not sure that we serve anything to try to wiggle these things around arbitrarily. Right now we just have a few vocal people saying "I don't like it" -- but these were the same people saying "I don't like it" three years ago. Whenever something changes, there's a new reason that they don't like it.

I would think we would be better served to have specific problem-oriented discussions. "This undesirable consequence is in play" instead of "changing this assumption will obviously resolve every undesirable consequence I see in play."

[Heero]

Guys, is it possible we have run all the fun people off because we who remain arent actually any fun ourselves? I think this is pretty likely.

[Ithildur]

I specifically left out whether the consequences are desirable or not to most of the (past and present) playerbase.

Personally I'm probably a moderate leaning conservative, which is why I'm still playing, lauding some changes while lamenting others.

I do note the changes/consequences are not desirable to many who no longer play here, while going some ways towards appeasing others who still aren't happy.

[Swift]

Swift seems to be under the impression that making levels a bit easier to get automatically diminishes the desire to keep going.

That this is what you think clearly shows you have no idea or understanding of why so many old school players walked away from this community and why many of the ones that are left talk more fondly about the old days of ALFA.

The only thing about ALFA that has not changed is that we are still using Faerun. Pretty much everything else is gone.

Also, we didn't just make it a 'bit' easier. We have made it vastly easier, to the point that low levels are trivial unless you are a brand new player.

[FoamBats4All]

And yet, in ALFA1 you could level faster than in ALFA2, says other people.

Funny how memory works. No one agrees on what ALFA1 was. Some say it had a lot of flaws, some say it was a perfect golden age.

[Zelknolf]

I specifically left out whether the consequences are desirable or not to most of the (past and present) playerbase.

Personally I'm probably a moderate leaning conservative, which is why I'm still playing, lauding some changes while lamenting others.

I do note the changes/consequences are not desirable to many who no longer play here, while going some ways towards appeasing others who still aren't happy.

It is of course knee deep in perspective, which is why it's so easy to debate.

But if we talk in vagueness and whimsy, instead of specific problems, specific targets, and specific solutions, we talk ourselves into terrible designs.

[Lucifer]

Dergon said

That seems fast to me.... but that's just me.

My ALFA PCs have all had a similar advancement pattern that was more like level 2 at 1 week, level 6 at 4 months, level 9 at one year, level 12 at 2 years. (I haven't gotten a PC past level 12 yet). That has felt about right, allowing DMs and players to adjust to the incremental gain in power.

_____

I long for the tabletop days of my youth and early adulthood. Fundamentally what I want from ALFA is for someone to help recreate that tabletop gaming experience.

In that way I have no problems with a high magic system.... that's D&D... all those spells and special abilities and magic items are all part of the tabletop game I'm trying to recreate. Yes, I am aware that DM, scripting, coding for that high magic is challenge, but I hope the people that do that stuff mostly find it worth it.




I agree 100% with him..as far as what I long for tabletop wise..though I get it is very hard if not impossible to create.Maxbogs came closest to it when I was DMed by him. Advancement wise Dergon also hit it on the head. As Fasr as IC rezzes I weill say this..if a Char has advanced far enough to cast te Rezz they should be allowed to. If you are taken to a temple to be rezzed by an NPC..is it IC that it would be done..A) by that temple for the PC or PC's involved and B) IC thyat your god would allow such ..depending on the temple and IC reasons/outlook of both gods involved ect. It should have meaning..not just be a rubber stamp. Also in my op[inion..if we have one set of abilities "voted in" or made popular in one regime ALFA should not seek to limit it IG with limitations such as ingrediants being missing I have seen this happen a few times in my scant 4 years here and it sucks if you work to attain something and are then blocked because someone wants to make a political statement.

Low to Mid magic

Rezzes yes..but not a rubber stamp


Character advancement to me seems a bit fast the last year or so..I remember when all level 6+ were considered high level..and that was only four years ago

Gold..let em earn it..just enforce maximum wealth, also enforce minimum wealth unless a Character was just rezzed..then perhaps they should be poor as a church mouse for a while.

[Iona]

Hello Everyone,

While I haven’t introduced myself yet on these forums, I really got excited about this topic when I started reading through. I thought instead of giving the forums my opinion, that I would share my experience so far about the server and express what I have really liked.

I currently have a Level 1 Human Rogue on the Moonshae Server. I’ll start off with my dislikes about the server first because the list is much smaller. Finding people is difficult; because I am new, I don’t know the levels of players or who really anybody is, and running into people just doesn’t seem to happen with me. I’ll usually have to ask a player, who tends to be a higher level and off attempting some higher level content that I can’t attempt. This is expected on my part, however, it makes it hard for me to hook-up with like levels to engage in some decent social/adventuring RP.

What I do love about this server. The strict permadeath policy here is the best, as well as the low XP advancement. I am three days into this server, and have exactly 214XP as a result. This is fantastic to me. Walking on the roads at night, I feel a sense of personal terror. I LOVE feeling scared with my new character. I saw a bear on the road and was so scared to get near it that I walks clear around the map in stealth to avoid it. Big boulders along the road, I’m scared I’m going to get mugged by bandits that I’ll not be able to fend against; this is so unbelievable fun for me I’m already addicted. I also love the economy I’ve seen so far. Again I’ve been here for three days and I have about 60GP after buying some started gear, and a few drinks and a loaf of bread for the road. What’s great about this is I don’t feel restricted from buying things like basic gear for myself while even at this lower level. I still feel I can buy all the necessary items to get me through things at the moment.

Yesterday, another level 1 as well as perhaps a level 4 or 5 ventured with my character out into the swamps. We ran into some Pirates out there in what looked to be a smuggling house. Our Level 4 or 5 took them with relative ease. However, when we ventured further, there were 4 more pirates. OH GOSH was this exhilarating. Our level 4 almost died coming within 6 hit points of dropping below 0. My own character actually managed to help (CROSSBOWS FOR THE WIN). My char felt useful, but incredibly scared knowing a single arrow might be her death. There were points where I was ready to click and run and nearly ditch my group my character was so scared. I’ve never had this on another server because either I’d just respawn or I grind rats for hours on every other server in existence until I have enough levels to buffer myself.

Also, as a side note; I love the fact that almost all of your travel areas are not flooded with enemies. I like the ability as a new character to travel around and see all the beautiful areas. I’ve been entertained even when alone on the server to just pack my things in my backpack and deliver mail or simply travel everywhere I can. This server is beautiful and while travelling at night still scares me, there is a sense of exploration I can enjoy without constant need to hack my way through creatures wherever I go.

At any rate, I thought I would share my thoughts and feelings to show what a new player to the community see’s when she joins.

[Ithildur]

Welcome Iona, and great to hear you're enjoying the game at low levels. Interesting to hear your perspective; you would've fit in well with a lot of the old timers.

It's pretty obvious that different folks play different games/approaches. While in practice that certainly was true to some extent in the old days as well (especially from server to server, i.e. Daggerdale vs Daggerford were a ways apart, gonna happen with lots of servers and Standards not being enforced), it strikes me as ironic that we've made a lot of effort to bring stuff like Standards in line across the board over the years in ALFA2 (having only 2-4 servers makes things easier, in theory at least)... only to have less of a common shared vision of what gameplay in ALFA is about than ever.