How to bring back the people?

[Ronan]

I don't really accept the "NWN2 is dying" argument as much as others here. Sure its dated, but so are pens and paper. Its just a medium; we make the game.

1) IC-geographic split
2) Level split

Breaking it down a bit more:

• Geographics1
• Miscellaneous IC factors (alignment, deity, allegiances, etc.)1 3
• Levels/power1 2
• Timezones
• Miscellaneous OOC factors (cliques, feuds, etc).3
• Playstyles1

1 Is mitigated by allowing multiple PCs.
2 Is mitigated by a level cap.
3 Are often of lesser importance when a DM starts running something.

We have a level cap, and it is 20. Its also waaaaay beyond what ALFA is prepared to support in terms of statics, gear, mobs and even plots (requiring building, etc) for regular play. Players will just have to come to grips with the fact that at some point, due to D&D's silliness, they're going to have a lot more trouble finding a game.

Anything you can do to reduce staff workload is huge. We can't support all level ranges, and we aren't going to lower the level cap (at least not to anything meaningful) at this point. We can however raise the starting level, or make it easier/quicker to level up.

Believe me, for anyone who has never run/built a server and/or a regular campaign, its a huge amount of work. Anything we can do to reduce staff load will give us huge gains, and one way to do this is to reduce the power disparity between PCs. Consider all the things built just for the special case of level 1-3s, or all that we would have to build if we wanted to support regular parties of level 13+ on BG.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

simple. Spend all the time it took to post every one of these postings, and put that time toward something tangibly beneficial, like getting horses IG, or getting OAS up and lurching.

Words. Words words words words words. words words words.


ACTION

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

[Magile]

Yeah... posting while drunk probably isn't a good idea.

Seriously though, some of us are really getting carried away here; this isn't a campaign tabletop game with 4 players yet.

posting while being a douche is also not the best idea ever.

However if you think lv spread is not a problem in ALFA, or if you have better ideas on how to handle it...
please, let us know.

This thread is over. Kid wins.

[t-ice]

Yes, Ronan!

We can however raise the starting level, or make it easier/quicker to level up.

And to make it slower to level when close enough to that de facto cap of 13 to 15? That way people don't have to let go of cherished characters because they powered out of the game. I'm sure most players think it's frigging awesome there are PCs here whose story, all played out IC and IG, could fill a book. It just sucks all a newbie can do with such a PC is to bask in his glory and adore him one way or another. There's no way they can face a challenge together (or very few, and demanding to DM ways).

[Rumple C]

Voluntary level caps work as well.

You can still RP without hitting that level up button. I always liked lvl 7. I think i'll stay there (when i get there).

Alfas meant to be about the RP, not the XP.

[Swift]

Can we get a poll up asking players whether they will actively* utilize multiple PCs if we go down that route? I see it thrown around as the magic bullet for player density as though everyone in ALFA will suddenly be running around with the max number of PCs allowed, which seems to be a view based entirely on anecdotal evidence.

I'd like to see just how much of ALFA is happy to roll a second PC (or third, depending what way we go) as I remain of the view that while it may have some benefits, we will still be trying to fix player density issues after its introduction.

*By this I mean will actually swap regularly back and forth between characters, rather than leaving an existing character alone for weeks/months while they try out a second one

[Mick]

Alfas meant to be about the RP, not the XP.

While I generally agree with this statement, it also cannot be ignored that XP, levels and loot/gear equate to survival. Survival means the telling (RP) of your story has a fair and decent chance of continuing when the RP takes the PC to dangerous places. With this being some approximation of D&D, eventually your PC's survivability will matter.

[FoamBats4All]

Alfas meant to be about the RP, not the XP.

While I generally agree with this statement, it also cannot be ignored that XP, levels and loot/gear equate to survival. Survival means the telling (RP) of your story has a fair and decent chance of continuing when the RP takes the PC to dangerous places. With this being some approximation of D&D, eventually your PC's survivability will matter.

Sayin' it like it is.

[Ronan]

Yes, unfortunately D&D is an environment which expects geometric power progression of PCs. To try to play it otherwise is to die a lot, or not use a significant amount of its content (for both PCs and mobs).

[Ithildur]

Yeah... posting while drunk probably isn't a good idea.

Seriously though, some of us are really getting carried away here; this isn't a campaign tabletop game with 4 players yet.

posting while being a douche is also not the best idea ever.

However if you think lv spread is not a problem in ALFA, or if you have better ideas on how to handle it...
please, let us know.

Hmm... Kid... my friend ... you said in IRC that you were drunk while posting that; your proposal was so out there that I figured you were serious.

Regardless, not a feasible idea for ALFA to 'carry over' xp from dead PCs to new ones (seriously, wth?); perfectly fine if you wish to run a campaign with 4 players, be my guest.

How do we handle the level spread? Play the damn game more and stop worrying so much about not having as much levels as someone else is a good start. What the hell is happening to this place that people can't enjoy the game here just because they're low level?? This needs to stop.

Not saying some things don't need tweaking, but for pete's sake, please stop all this whining and agonizing and hand wringing, and play or DM. Or take a break, everyone needs it from time to time, play another game/server that you can shoot up to high levels with (perfectly legit) and come back with your RP batteries recharged; don't expect or demand to be able to do that here.

This is what it comes down to; sure there are tweaks, balancing, adjustments to the ruleset, etc. but this place ultimately has never been about levels first and foremost. If that's the primary concern for some, perhaps those folks need to honestly ask themselves if they're better served legitimately enjoying a different kind of game in some other setting.

[kid]

the point was/is that we are unable with our busy lifes to A. play as much. B. create content to serve all levels equaly. C. DM all levels equaly.
Content + DMing is going to be centered more on mid levels. the more people we have around those levels the better.
would make all our jobs easier.

In a perfect world we would have content for every level and faction and DM for each one to boot. As it is this is not possible, sadly.
Its not the dislike of level X or Z im talking about. its making ALFA more playable for as many players as possible.
again.. i dropped my high level to start anew purely for the fun of it. if you ask me i'd likely not have chosen to start at level 5, but thats cause i can (with some effort) afford the time it would demand of me. others might noy, and that would be something we can offer to make life for our players, who are busy people as well, more enjoyable.
seriously, we're here to have fun. not to adhear to some arcaic ideas about how things -should- be.

so your suggestion is people should play more? thats not tangable. they have lives and work and crap to do.
dim ret on statics would help, but really im not so certain that would be enough.
Anyway, just a tought. whatever.

[Swift]

What the hell is happening to this place that people can't enjoy the game here just because they're low level?? This needs to stop.

People all to often create builds, rather than simple characters and builds tend to take 3 or 4 levels before they start to take shape and people don't want their character to die before they can fall into the predetermined build.

Much of that rests with PrCs because most require a very specific character build to achieve. Would have been better if all the PrCs were more like Harper Scout/Agent where your PC would barely even know they were on track for it until they were eligible, but that was a decision made back in the NWN1 days that we can't recant now.

Side note: would still like to see people level up as soon as they hit a new level rather than waiting weeks/months because their PrC isn't ready or because they can't continue their build for whatever reason, but that is so far off topic and carries so little support as to be irrelevant.

[Blindhamsterman]

Side note: would still like to see people level up as soon as they hit a new level rather than waiting weeks/months because their PrC isn't ready or because they can't continue their build for whatever reason, but that is so far off topic and carries so little support as to be irrelevant.

for what it's worth, I think most actually do, I know Ithildur met the requirements for his some time ago, but took additional levels that he needn't have, I believe I qualified for mine a couple levels earlier than I took it, Keryn definitely got into his a long while after he qualified and I think Ronan entered his without any major wait.

Not sure which other PCs actually have PRCs, so can't comment on them

[Ithildur]

People are busy, yes, so why not spend available time logging in to play more, complain less?

I see players (I won't mention names because all it'll do is draw some people's ire towards them - yes, I've seen it happen) who work and have busy lives simply log in and RP their butts off without complaints; they enjoy the game as well as making the game enjoyable for others regardless of what their PC's lvls are or how many mobs they can kill in 3 rounds. These are the guys (and gals) that make the game fun for many of us.

I wish these folks would post more because they benefit ALFA much more than the chronic complainers, and their thoughts deserve to be heard to balance out what's being broadcast out there.

Again, some things can benefit from tweaking, yes; I'm not opposed to change just to keep things static. But some of the loudest voices in these threads, I can't help but wonder if they had their way we would be playing a game closer to, say BGTOTSC brand than ALFA brand.

I'm pretty sure that's not what most of us want yet.

[Heero]

I enjoy the game as a low level. I would enjoy it more if I had more low levels to adventure with me. I dont enjoy the game as a low level swordsman (or other melee designed character) that is told to stand in back and shoot a bow for 6 levels as I am wasting the party's healing while I go to -6 constantly. Our PCs arent supposed to know their levels. A class level of fighter or ranger or rogue or monk or whatever has enough training that they have a class level. It is total meta to stand in the back and shoot a bow for 6 levels as a character magically gains the swordsmanship to allow them to one day swing that thing at something. Its silly and its OOC, even if it does make sense from a gameplay standpoint.

High levels are fine. Theyve earned it. They deserve the spotlight if and when they are in play with a low level. The problem is that as a low level there are most often ONLY high levels to play with. A good DM might be able to account for a low level, but thats the point: its requires a DM, and it requires a DM that can manage an encounter for a wide range of levels while allowing them to feel as though they accomplished something. Otherwise, without a DM, its just standing behind a meat shield and basking in his glory as you do next to nothing.

Parties of like-leveled players - be they a party of low levels, party of mid levels, or a party of high levels - is fun DnD. Parties with mixed levels is most often not. RPing with a high level mentor-type can be good and often enjoyable RP. Wandering around behind a high level PC as it shows you this or that, basically as your body guard, may be fun for some, but certainly not all. Some of us find it most fun exploring some new place with some buddies in the same boat as ourselves - exploring for the first time, not knowing what to expect, and with the realization that any hurdle encountered will be overcome (or not) based up the skills of you and your friends rather than that body guard mentor standing between ourself and any danger as they show us the ropes.

Maybe multiple PCs will help with the wide level disparities, but, as it stands now, a new player rolling a new PC can pretty much expect to play with other PCs to whom they can not contribute anything outside a lucky roll or lucky healing potion usage or similar during a DMed event. Unless a player wants to play 'catch up' be remaining logged into the game for 8+ hours/day and/or running as many riskless statics as possible, all thats available is playing comfort boy to whatever PC will take you on.