How to bring back the people?

[Blindhamsterman]

But people vote DMA in etc etc etc? Yes and has beens who have not played in a year also get to vote,

umm, no they don't (or shouldn't) the only ones that get to vote on DMA are staff, other admin and the DMs, which actually should cut out a lot of people.

[Xanthea]

I'm not sure scheduled DM sessions with a prearranged group is the best way to make ALFA feel more alive. Sure it gets people online for a session, but that doesn't do much if they're exclusionary (for good reasons, granted) and log out again when it's done.

If you want to build a playerbase that logs in a lot and makes the server feel more vital then you need more random unannounced DMing too to encourage people to play all the time.

[puny]

If you want to build a playerbase that logs in a lot and makes the server feel more vital then you need more random unannounced DMing too to encourage people to play all the time.

this!

[Adanu]

I think having two PCs

Currently allowed, though not simultaneously, due to temp retirement. Talks are in progress (as was the intention upon setting the system up, I made call for a reveiw of the system by the next PA once we had some baseline stats) on further easy the restrictions to allow the retirement of PC's not limited to just once.

Currently half assed, in my opinion. Make it two PCs at once or make it a sensible time limit between temp retirements and we'll have an agreement. Sensible would mean once every 20-30 max. The objective is to give options, not to punish.

a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards

Not really sure where this is coming from, since most PC's are either low wealth or on target. If anything, at the moment we have a lack of rewards, as you've previously stated. Please explain further this statement, in reference to your previous statement about lack of awards/dms bleeding wealth through consumable item use. However, I think what you are referring to is the combination of things an item can do? For instance, requiring an item to be enchanted before any other magics can be in place? Need some more elaboration on that front, possibly some examples you've encountered IG that can be used here?...

I'm referring to pushing numbers so that people have breathing room beyond the current amount, and don't punish people for going over 'limit' as much. Anything good item wise takes up 10k gold at least. that's a whole damn level according to the 'standards' chart. Giving more space for gold count would allow for better itemization and for less 'this player and that are overlimit!

and that being less hardcore about farming

Progress is slow but sure on that front, as previous talks of dimrets are being picked up again between the current PA and TA. Once Dimrets are established, any reference of farming should go away, as a curve scale will be used to determine xp for combat kills.

This is a potential example of game B ruining game A because 'someone thinks farming is too much, in my opinion. Please explain how it'll work for layman so I can make a solid judgment.

and leveling

Leveling has never been as easy as it is currently. The statics set up easily allows one to jet through lower levels without too much of a problem. PA is in current reveiw on giving xp for bio's, which is a further boost to this. In essence, the community has already eased up on leveling. Now, if we as a community still think that leveling is too slow, why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive?

I'm not referring to making leveling faster, I'm referring to being more sensible about levels. Make level one easier to deal with, and higher levels level out in risk versus reward. I for one am not planning to start over from one if Zyrus dies. ALFA Is awful for leveling currently, even with statics.

Just because you run for adminship doesn't mean you will win, or even get anything done. LA is NOT the same as DMA, don't try to compare them.

So...if the community itself decides to vote against a candidate

All staff, DMs, HDMs and Admins can vote. Not the community at large, for a DMA. Don't compare.

[zilvai]

From Danielnm: "why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive"


This sounds alot better then where things are at currently to me. XD

[FoamBats4All]

From Danielnm: "why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive"


This sounds alot better then where things are at currently to me. XD

Zilvai!

How do we get you back?

[zilvai]

From Danielnm: "why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive"


This sounds alot better then where things are at currently to me. XD

Zilvai!

How do we get you back?

Your Avatar did it! I'll be on tomorrow, trolling b****es.

[FoamBats4All]

From Danielnm: "why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive"


This sounds alot better then where things are at currently to me. XD

Zilvai!

How do we get you back?

Your Avatar did it! I'll be on tomorrow, trolling b****es.

Well that's the answer then. Everyone, copy my avatar, and our active player numbers will double.

[Adanu]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a go at DMA, but I would need to feel comfy with the DM client here to be sure the ideas I have for things would work out.

[Rotku]

Rotku, correlation doesn't equal causation.

The correlation being the fact that no one stepped up to this position, that you claim is one of the key Admin-y posts?

When I say old boys club, I mean those who refuse to think change might be a good thing, and goes against 'the spirit of ALFA".

So the reverse of that would be the 'new boys club', who insist change would be a good thing, with no evidence or reasoning to back things up?

I'd like to see myself somewhere in the middle. I'd quite enjoy having two PCs - I always love playing those first few levels, and if I can do it twice at the same time then great! Have we discussed the idea of CAmpaign PCs recently? We use to have them in NWN1, where a person could have a second PC, so long as it was part of a DMs campaign, and then was allowed to be leveled up to level appropriate for the campaign? I liked that idea and it worked well in practice.

[danielmn]

I think having two PCs

Currently allowed, though not simultaneously, due to temp retirement. Talks are in progress (as was the intention upon setting the system up, I made call for a reveiw of the system by the next PA once we had some baseline stats) on further easy the restrictions to allow the retirement of PC's not limited to just once.

Currently half assed, in my opinion. Make it two PCs at once or make it a sensible time limit between temp retirements and we'll have an agreement. Sensible would mean once every 20-30 max. The objective is to give options, not to punish.

a bit of layoff of standards in regards to loot so that DMs can have breathing room with rewards

Not really sure where this is coming from, since most PC's are either low wealth or on target. If anything, at the moment we have a lack of rewards, as you've previously stated. Please explain further this statement, in reference to your previous statement about lack of awards/dms bleeding wealth through consumable item use. However, I think what you are referring to is the combination of things an item can do? For instance, requiring an item to be enchanted before any other magics can be in place? Need some more elaboration on that front, possibly some examples you've encountered IG that can be used here?...

I'm referring to pushing numbers so that people have breathing room beyond the current amount, and don't punish people for going over 'limit' as much. Anything good item wise takes up 10k gold at least. that's a whole damn level according to the 'standards' chart. Giving more space for gold count would allow for better itemization and for less 'this player and that are overlimit!

and that being less hardcore about farming

Progress is slow but sure on that front, as previous talks of dimrets are being picked up again between the current PA and TA. Once Dimrets are established, any reference of farming should go away, as a curve scale will be used to determine xp for combat kills.

This is a potential example of game B ruining game A because 'someone thinks farming is too much, in my opinion. Please explain how it'll work for layman so I can make a solid judgment.

and leveling

Leveling has never been as easy as it is currently. The statics set up easily allows one to jet through lower levels without too much of a problem. PA is in current reveiw on giving xp for bio's, which is a further boost to this. In essence, the community has already eased up on leveling. Now, if we as a community still think that leveling is too slow, why not start at level 6 or 8, and make all the spawns in game well below the CR level for those levels to provide no challenge whatsoever, and to make sure all PC's survive?

I'm not referring to making leveling faster, I'm referring to being more sensible about levels. Make level one easier to deal with, and higher levels level out in risk versus reward. I for one am not planning to start over from one if Zyrus dies. ALFA Is awful for leveling currently, even with statics.

Just because you run for adminship doesn't mean you will win, or even get anything done. LA is NOT the same as DMA, don't try to compare them.

So...if the community itself decides to vote against a candidate

All staff, DMs, HDMs and Admins can vote. Not the community at large, for a DMA. Don't compare.

On point one, current talks are discussing a cool down of 30 days (a month) between temp retirements, with the number of retirements being unlimited (you'll still only be able to have 1 temp retired at any single time).

On point two, we've had lack of wealth standards in the past. It did not bode well, community wise. See Ronan's comments. The main conflict comes when you have pc's that are being dmed a ton, versus pc's that don't get dmed a lot. We'll have a wide variation of wealth in that reguard, with relaxed restrictions/no restrictions. This plays hell when it comes to CVC. You'll have the pc that has garnered a lot of dm time, with substantial wealth, possibly facing the extreme opposite. So it becomes an issue of "You are not being fair to me because I can't have beyond this much wealth until I level" against the issue of "Holy carp I just had cvc initiated by someone else and got resoundly slaughtered. I wish I had the gear the he/she had...". In this situation, I tend to side with the have nots, as relaxation/doing away with wealth standards would only serve to widen the gap that is already present.

On point three, we've had very few cases of Farming in general. Those cases proved to be well beyond the norm as far as what was garnered. I'd also rather not focus on something like Farming, an extreme use of time behind the scenes (The C Game). I tend to think we aren't being hardcore about farming at all. If we had cases lined up around the block, possibly. Now, as far as dimrets, we have a curve for sp as far as combat, where the xp awarded is high to begin with over a time period, and slowly levels off and slopes down. You can still go out and slaughter the whole server if you want...you just won't be getting xp for it after a certain point in the downward slope is reached. So have your fun, by all means. If the loss of xp after a certain point (the slope gradually raises with time as well, so it is dependant on time as well) ruins someones game...then I hope the person will re-evaluate why they are here to begin with. To grind through statics? Or to take part in powerful storylines?

As for point four, I just reached level 2. In maybe two weeks? In both time, as well as it's ease, I think it is appropriate. Note that I was dmed 2x during level one. I think a dm on each server specifically focused on low levels would be a great boon. As for higher levels risk/reward and risk/level, I also agree that there needs to be a higher level focus as well. But people also need not be afraid of loosing their pc. Starting over can be fun, I should know!

[Ithildur]

I for one am not planning to start over from one if Zyrus dies. ALFA Is awful for leveling currently, even with statics.

I always love playing those first few levels, and if I can do it twice at the same time then great!

This says a lot.

Rumple and the other admins do not have an easy job; driving the bus is challenging enough but when some of the passengers are demanding to go to the zoo while others are sniffing about how much better the museum is...

I will say this, Adanu you make some valid points here and there but your tone here and in other posts comes across as rather petulant and rather demanding; it's extremely unappealing (though I'm sure some of it may be due to frustration or whatever) and does not inspire confidence that someone like that will make for a good DMA.

[t-ice]

Now, as far as dimrets, we have a curve for sp as far as combat, where the xp awarded is high to begin with over a time period, and slowly levels off and slopes down. You can still go out and slaughter the whole server if you want...you just won't be getting xp for it after a certain point in the downward slope is reached.

Not true at the relevant levels of below about 10. The curve down you speak of is xp per kill, which is not the relevant measure. Xp per time is. As a PC becomes higher in level, kills per time increase substantially. (Or at least potential kills for the farming -minded player). For reasons of having more spawns around that your PC is able to slaughter, not needing to play so careful, not needing to replenish per day abilities and/or restock consumables, and being able to solo spawns without risk whereas lowbies need groups.

Eventually xp per time goes down as every spawn on the server is below your PC. But that happens at, what, maybe levels 10+?

To bring people back, we need to bring people to play together. That means defeating the IC-geographic spread, and it means overcoming the level spread. Those are the two reasons I don't even bother to try ALFA right now (though a scheduled, weekly DM session would trump that).
To decrease the level spread we'd need to increase the starting level and decrease leveling rates. I'd love to play DnD E8. (It probably wouldn't be technically that hard to actually cap levels at some number (around 10?) and instead give extra wealth allowance and/or feat for every N xp gained after that? Coupled with a lvl3 start, that'd do quite a bit to make every player relevant).

Statics are assumed to have made leveling easier and thus decrease level spreads. I'd say the effect is almost obviously the opposite: Those who have the time/inclination to use the statics zoom ahead, and others are left behind.

Well...

I heard from other players around about the high number of players in servers like "Baldur's gate chronicles of the sword coast" . I have decided to do a compassion table to see why they have 30-40 people online almost any time and ALFA been struggling to get 10.

The point is to see what they are doing good comparing to us and maybe make changes accordingly .

This is an important point that's been largely omitted in the discussion so far (in favor of rolling eyes at Adanu for managing to say "If my PC dies, I'm out this community" and "I'd like to run for Admin to lead this community" in almost the same sentence ). The question this beckons is, do we want to become a second BGCSS if that's what attracts players? If the answer is yes, do we gain something by copycatting instead of simply shutting down ALFA and joining them? If the answer is no, then what are the elements that we differentiate our vision with, and which to copy?

To me it seems the "player's voice that is repressed" (that at least Adanu claims) is essentially to become more like BGCSS. The problem is that this move will attract some players, and it will repel others. And doing the opposite, being more "hardcore", will also repel some players and attract others. Votes are the only way to solve this. I don't know about the "legacy members who don't play but vote to overcome any change" argument. But sounds suspiciously conspiracy-ish denial of votes in the box. It might erroneously sound like the majority of players favors radical change because those favoring radical change are always loudest? (Equally valid on points of potential change I presented as to those by Adanu)

[rorax]

Well...

I heard from other players around about the high number of players in servers like "Baldur's gate chronicles of the sword coast" . I have decided to do a compassion table to see why they have 30-40 people online almost any time and ALFA been struggling to get 10.

The point is to see what they are doing good comparing to us and maybe make changes accordingly .

This is an important point that's been largely omitted in the discussion so far (in favor of rolling eyes at Adanu for managing to say "If my PC dies, I'm out this community" and "I'd like to run for Admin to lead this community" in almost the same sentence ). The question this beckons is, do we want to become a second BGCSS if that's what attracts players? If the answer is yes, do we gain something by copycatting instead of simply shutting down ALFA and joining them? If the answer is no, then what are the elements that we differentiate our vision with, and which to copy?

To me it seems the "player's voice that is repressed" (that at least Adanu claims) is essentially to become more like BGCSS. The problem is that this move will attract some players, and it will repel others. And doing the opposite, being more "hardcore", will also repel some players and attract others. Votes are the only way to solve this. I don't know about the "legacy members who don't play but vote to overcome any change" argument. But sounds suspiciously conspiracy-ish denial of votes in the box. It might erroneously sound like the majority of players favors radical change because those favoring radical change are always loudest? (Equally valid on points of potential change I presented as to those by Adanu)

At last someone cared to read my post

I don't think anyone in ALFA want it to become second BGCSS, but i think we can make some changes to be more appealing to higher percentage of potential players.

For example , the permanent death is something that will always keep ALFA a unique and different place, it even has it's own appeal...

But I do think it worth to consider to following points:

1. Allowing unlimited characters for a player because it would increase interaction. Example : "You're logged with your half orc priest of Grummush and i am with my elven priest of Corellon? hold on - let me log my half orc barbabian so we could play together

2. Consolidate machines and server so point number one will be even more relevant. Force people to play on the same machine and not too far from each other.

3. Make the "farming" rules less restrictive, at least at lower and medium levels. That does not mean to make "leveling" faster, it just means if it's someone's fun to go around with his friends (or solo) and kill stuff all day, let him do so - at least it makes people do something together. (as long as it make sense and IC behavior)

4. Build more "hack and slash" areas for players to visit while there are no DMs online.


That's it basically , i think if we could get any of the points mentioned above it would bring more players quickly(in matter of weeks) and we won't make drastic changes to the "ALFA Spirit".

[I-KP]

I for one am not planning to start over from one if Zyrus dies. ALFA Is awful for leveling currently, even with statics.

I always love playing those first few levels, and if I can do it twice at the same time then great!

I will not speak for others but I can say that I will not be starting again [at lvl1] when that fateful moment arrives.

This says a lot.

Rumple and the other admins do not have an easy job; driving the bus is challenging enough but when some of the passengers are demanding to go to the zoo while others are sniffing about how much better the museum is...

Add another stop to the bus route. By default start all new characters at lvl3 (lvl2 is still too far within the 'broken' zone as far as I'm concerned) but allow those who want to start at a lower level the option to do so.