Proposal for a Charter Amendment Regarding Activity and Voti

[Castano]

yeah lock pls. We're in game B territory now. thanks guys

[Veilan]

Some of the angles Cloud presents seem to have merit, and are things we actually had to consider.

Please note that we are already trying to ensure people who disappear or are inactive get pruned - in the case of the DM group this is the most observable, but staff heads also regularly get updated.

On the case of deciding elections, I think the Charter gives us a sufficient variety of tools to employ, with several mechanisms keeping check on each other. If someone really vanishes, solutions can be found. Please note however that just because someoe doesn't always maintain a huge public profile, doesn't mean he must be inactive or not present. Some portfolios lend themselves more easily to that, and some personae also have a better knack for it.

In any case, I already thought about the issue a bit myself, and the only way that seems practical to me to collect data, and actually prevent abuse, would be a form of voter registration. But even this is laced with privacy concerns and bureucratic hassle, and I'm not quite sure ALFA wants that?

The only "problem" seems to be with the ill-defined general electorate, from my inside perspective - and even that I cannot say was overly problematic, in my view. That Regas won doesn't seem to be based on U-boats suddenly surfacing, and to me it seemed we had a strong and respectable showing of fresh blood and fresh ideas.

On the case of staff, some cycling out seems to be done (speaking of my own office), though, we must face the reality that there simply is a limited pool of volunteers to draw from. It's not like we can hire & fire at whim and at leisure, and I think we should probably be grateful that some people volunteer for abuse in various positions with some regularity.

Cheers,

[Adanu]

yeah lock pls. We're in game B territory now. thanks guys

Honestly, this is how ALFA works. Getting angry about it isn't making it go away.

[Heero]

I know spite has always been a good motivator for my building. "That asshole is pissing me off again, Ima build this cool ass stuff for spite."

Look for updates to TSM in the near future.

[CloudDancing]

My whole point is the simple ethics and morality of it all and to answer these questions:

1. Is it fair for active players to face a heterogeneous system (literally a wall) of people who all have the same mind when it comes to player issues and management?

2. Is it fair to active players to deal with representation that again is a unified front that consciously OR unconsciously sides with people they have a history with EVEN if that history is littered with abuse of confidence, confidentiality, and open contempt for active players under investigation both in public and in private forums?

3. Is it fair that only NOW through the careful and clever observation of trend data that active players are being punished for minor errors in their play while EGREGIOUS long-term (4-6 years worth) violations of these same rules have been documented by so-called "trusted" players who now lay outside of the statue of limitations or who are inactive currently?

4.Is it fair or ethical to log in to vote for an Alfa office when you have no intention of playing, volunteering, or dming ever again?

5. Is it fair or ethical to make promises to volunteer and then not follow through with that promise or do so in a completely inadequate manner and leave the player base to deal with the natural consequences such as players leaving, issues being ignored, and once again that feeling of being stonewalled in by the status quo?

If you run about with a sledgehammer smashing at new ideas that challenge you and make you feel persecuted for some reason, at some point you are going end up either smashing yourself in the toe, the hammer bouncing up and hitting you in the face, or hitting someone your truly care for and value, in this case the active player base (aka no one likes socialized healthcare till their wife, kid, or grandma gets cancer and has no health insurance.) I could be very upset by some of the comments here but the logical comments explaining various faults were much more appreciated.

Also I prefer this over the leveling debate, which fortunately since all the mobs are overpowered (and worth only 1XP) for anyone under level 4, sort of makes the argument moot, because what, 1 out of 10 new pcs in a generation survive to see level 4? That is just an example of what you might be fighting to preserve here; the active demoralization and destruction of new player morale both in the in-game system and in the dispute system which of course leads to quitting entirely.
This is the end of my rope.

[Adanu]

CD has good points. I've actively seen all of these things in my time here and I'm a 'new kid'.

If you people think this is isn't a problem, you're not paying attention.

[Swift]

3. Is it fair that only NOW through the careful and clever observation of trend data that active players are being punished for minor errors in their play while EGREGIOUS long-term (4-6 years worth) violations of these same rules have been documented by so-called "trusted" players who now lay outside of the statue of limitations or who are inactive currently?

That would seem to fall far outside the particular proposal you have put forward. That is entirely a player discipline issue and has nothing to do with eligibility to run or vote.

4.Is it fair or ethical to log in to vote for an Alfa office when you have no intention of playing, volunteering, or dming ever again?

Ask any long time member and most will tell you they have taken significant breaks from ALFA. I, personally, went for a period of around 3 years without being active in any way outside of keeping an eye on the forums and IRC. However, I knew that, should I want to, it would only take a few minutes to log in and make a new character. Should I exclude myself from voting in elections because I am not sure if I will play/DM in the following six months?

Most people that have genuinely left the community and have no intention of playing ever again do not even keep tabs on what is going on or, as people such as Duck do, pop in once or twice a year to see the lay of the land.

The only real distinction we have ever made in ALFA is whether you are a member or not. Staff/DMs get taken off voting lists if they are inactive, but they remain members and as such can still vote for the Player Admin. It has served us pretty well for...oh...12 or 13 years now?

5. Is it fair or ethical to make promises to volunteer and then not follow through with that promise or do so in a completely inadequate manner and leave the player base to deal with the natural consequences such as players leaving, issues being ignored, and once again that feeling of being stonewalled in by the status quo?

No, but then if I promise to sit as an Admin for six months and a week after I am elected a family member is critically injured in a car accident and I have to leave, it is nobodys fault and there is nothing that can be done other than stepping down and having another election. Remember, this is not a business or a work place (although Admin would likely disagree about the latter) but a volunteer community. Real life intrudes on us all on a regular basis. Perhaps the simple thing would be for members to stop making promises?

Also I prefer this over the leveling debate, which fortunately since all the mobs are overpowered (and worth only 1XP) for anyone under level 4, sort of makes the argument moot, because what, 1 out of 10 new pcs in a generation survive to see level 4? That is just an example of what you might be fighting to preserve here; the active demoralization and destruction of new player morale both in the in-game system and in the dispute system which of course leads to quitting entirely.

There are literally hundreds of worlds where you can go which hold your hand all the way until you overpower everything and then tell you "There you go, you can go explore the world now". The starting experience in ALFA is literally as easy as it has ever been. Every server has dozens of static quests that can quickly shuttle you through the first couple of levels. We have the RPXP system that further grants XP to all players, new and old. What more are we supposed to do? Just get rid of enemies at all before level 4? Make starter areas where it is literally impossible to die?

Players already complain about there not being anything to do and nothing to challenge them outside of DM times once they reach level 8 or 9, so why do we want to shuttle them to that point even faster than we already do? I do not have the data, but I would hazard a guess that characters can level faster now than at any point since ALFA originally launched.

[Keryn]

OMFG I totally agree with Swift!!! its a miracle

3. Is it fair that only NOW through the careful and clever observation of trend data that active players are being punished for minor errors in their play while EGREGIOUS long-term (4-6 years worth) violations of these same rules have been documented by so-called "trusted" players who now lay outside of the statue of limitations or who are inactive currently?

That would seem to fall far outside the particular proposal you have put forward. That is entirely a player discipline issue and has nothing to do with eligibility to run or vote.

4.Is it fair or ethical to log in to vote for an Alfa office when you have no intention of playing, volunteering, or dming ever again?

Ask any long time member and most will tell you they have taken significant breaks from ALFA. I, personally, went for a period of around 3 years without being active in any way outside of keeping an eye on the forums and IRC. However, I knew that, should I want to, it would only take a few minutes to log in and make a new character. Should I exclude myself from voting in elections because I am not sure if I will play/DM in the following six months?

Most people that have genuinely left the community and have no intention of playing ever again do not even keep tabs on what is going on or, as people such as Duck do, pop in once or twice a year to see the lay of the land.

The only real distinction we have ever made in ALFA is whether you are a member or not. Staff/DMs get taken off voting lists if they are inactive, but they remain members and as such can still vote for the Player Admin. It has served us pretty well for...oh...12 or 13 years now?

5. Is it fair or ethical to make promises to volunteer and then not follow through with that promise or do so in a completely inadequate manner and leave the player base to deal with the natural consequences such as players leaving, issues being ignored, and once again that feeling of being stonewalled in by the status quo?

No, but then if I promise to sit as an Admin for six months and a week after I am elected a family member is critically injured in a car accident and I have to leave, it is nobodys fault and there is nothing that can be done other than stepping down and having another election. Remember, this is not a business or a work place (although Admin would likely disagree about the latter) but a volunteer community. Real life intrudes on us all on a regular basis. Perhaps the simple thing would be for members to stop making promises?

Also I prefer this over the leveling debate, which fortunately since all the mobs are overpowered (and worth only 1XP) for anyone under level 4, sort of makes the argument moot, because what, 1 out of 10 new pcs in a generation survive to see level 4? That is just an example of what you might be fighting to preserve here; the active demoralization and destruction of new player morale both in the in-game system and in the dispute system which of course leads to quitting entirely.

There are literally hundreds of worlds where you can go which hold your hand all the way until you overpower everything and then tell you "There you go, you can go explore the world now". The starting experience in ALFA is literally as easy as it has ever been. Every server has dozens of static quests that can quickly shuttle you through the first couple of levels. We have the RPXP system that further grants XP to all players, new and old. What more are we supposed to do? Just get rid of enemies at all before level 4? Make starter areas where it is literally impossible to die?

Players already complain about there not being anything to do and nothing to challenge them outside of DM times once they reach level 8 or 9, so why do we want to shuttle them to that point even faster than we already do? I do not have the data, but I would hazard a guess that characters can level faster now than at any point since ALFA originally launched.

[paazin]

Locking this for now. No need for flames and the like and the discussion doesn't seem particularly productive.