Leveling rates/ Highest Levels currently in ALFA/PrC's

[Ithildur]

Na. you'll just get people screaming on IRC.

Much easier to ignore.

[shad0wfax]

Ey some folks play 10h a day, but damm... thats not the norm not even close. We seriously don't need more restrictions. Thanks.

People who play 10h a day should be gently coaxed towards a counselling service, not have their XP restricted.

EDIT: Agreed, keryn. Also agreed elcadaver, assuming the counseling comment was tongue in cheek.

At present, what we do is troll them in irc, troll their character biographies in the DM forums by derailing their bios into a stats discussion, expose their character sheet stats and XP values in irc, resurrect dead posts by banned members to rant about them, encourage our friends to shun them in game, encourage dms to shun them, flood the PA inbox with complaints about them, and demand "justice" in the loudest voice possible until the PA issues some kind of action against them to appease the angry mob and sink the ir reputation, without actually telling people how extreme (or extremely minor) the ill-gotten XP gains actually were.

And then we tell them to log in less often for roleplay because other people with less free time think that it's unfair that those with more free time have earned a very proportional amount of additional XP.

Alfa is not ruled by standards or clearly defined pillars and policies; instead, it's ruled by vocal minorities with an axe to grind, vague rules that can be interpreted subjectively based on whim, and even more vague pillars which can be misinterpreted wildly.

[zilvai]

Ey some folks play 10h a day, but damm... thats not the norm not even close. We seriously don't need more restrictions. Thanks.

People who play 10h a day should be gently coaxed towards a counselling service, not have their XP restricted.

EDIT: Agreed, keryn. Also agreed elcadaver, assuming the counseling comment was tongue in cheek.

At present, what we do is troll them in irc, troll their character biographies in the DM forums by derailing their bios into a stats discussion, expose their character sheet stats and XP values in irc, resurrect dead posts by banned members to rant about them, encourage our friends to shun them in game, encourage dms to shun them, flood the PA inbox with complaints about them, and demand "justice" in the loudest voice possible until the PA issues some kind of action against them to appease the angry mob and sink the ir reputation, without actually telling people how extreme (or extremely minor) the ill-gotten XP gains actually were.

And then we tell them to log in less often for roleplay because other people with less free time think that it's unfair that those with more free time have earned a very proportional amount of additional XP.

Alfa is not ruled by standards or clearly defined pillars and policies; instead, it's ruled by vocal minorities with an axe to grind, vague rules that can be interpreted subjectively based on whim, and even more vague pillars which can be misinterpreted wildly.

+1

[Adanu]

Ey some folks play 10h a day, but damm... thats not the norm not even close. We seriously don't need more restrictions. Thanks.

People who play 10h a day should be gently coaxed towards a counselling service, not have their XP restricted.

EDIT: Agreed, keryn. Also agreed elcadaver, assuming the counseling comment was tongue in cheek.

At present, what we do is troll them in irc, troll their character biographies in the DM forums by derailing their bios into a stats discussion, expose their character sheet stats and XP values in irc, resurrect dead posts by banned members to rant about them, encourage our friends to shun them in game, encourage dms to shun them, flood the PA inbox with complaints about them, and demand "justice" in the loudest voice possible until the PA issues some kind of action against them to appease the angry mob and sink the ir reputation, without actually telling people how extreme (or extremely minor) the ill-gotten XP gains actually were.

And then we tell them to log in less often for roleplay because other people with less free time think that it's unfair that those with more free time have earned a very proportional amount of additional XP.

Alfa is not ruled by standards or clearly defined pillars and policies; instead, it's ruled by vocal minorities with an axe to grind, vague rules that can be interpreted subjectively based on whim, and even more vague pillars which can be misinterpreted wildly.

Agreed.

[FoamBats4All]

Ey some folks play 10h a day, but damm... thats not the norm not even close. We seriously don't need more restrictions. Thanks.

People who play 10h a day should be gently coaxed towards a counselling service, not have their XP restricted.

EDIT: Agreed, keryn. Also agreed elcadaver, assuming the counseling comment was tongue in cheek.

At present, what we do is troll them in irc, troll their character biographies in the DM forums by derailing their bios into a stats discussion, expose their character sheet stats and XP values in irc, resurrect dead posts by banned members to rant about them, encourage our friends to shun them in game, encourage dms to shun them, flood the PA inbox with complaints about them, and demand "justice" in the loudest voice possible until the PA issues some kind of action against them to appease the angry mob and sink the ir reputation, without actually telling people how extreme (or extremely minor) the ill-gotten XP gains actually were.

And then we tell them to log in less often for roleplay because other people with less free time think that it's unfair that those with more free time have earned a very proportional amount of additional XP.

Alfa is not ruled by standards or clearly defined pillars and policies; instead, it's ruled by vocal minorities with an axe to grind, vague rules that can be interpreted subjectively based on whim, and even more vague pillars which can be misinterpreted wildly.

This.

[Ronan]

If ALFA's standards are not effective, then a surprising number of PCs fall within them from some other cause.

A bit of bitchiness and some strikes tossed around are minor things. Admin seats themselves simply do not have that much power.

[Swift]

The funny thing is, it is always the players who know a long, long time before DMs about the individuals that choose to piss all over the spirit of ALFA and the idea that our progression is DM moderated.

Players always grumble when action seemingly takes forever against those that, to them, are obviously gaining XP in ways that are against the spirit of this community. Then again, we wouldn't have any of that if we never had players falling outside the standards we have set for ourselves and as Ronan said, the vast majority never fall foul of our rules and guidelines.

4 or 5 months to level 10 has never been an acceptable rate of gain in ALFA, even when it has come from mostly DM sources (eg Daggerford in NWN1 days). If all players want to do when a DM isn't around is farm up a storm, be it static quests or combat, there are hundreds of other servers out there where you can scratch that itch.

Players that excessively run statics or farm mobs will continue to feel the heat, because that is not what ALFA is about.

[Adanu]

The funny thing is, it is always the players who know a long, long time before DMs about the individuals that choose to piss all over the spirit of ALFA and the idea that our progression is DM moderated.

Players always grumble when action seemingly takes forever against those that, to them, are obviously gaining XP in ways that are against the spirit of this community. Then again, we wouldn't have any of that if we never had players falling outside the standards we have set for ourselves and as Ronan said, the vast majority never fall foul of our rules and guidelines.

4 or 5 months to level 10 has never been an acceptable rate of gain in ALFA, even when it has come from mostly DM sources (eg Daggerford in NWN1 days). If all players want to do when a DM isn't around is farm up a storm, be it static quests or combat, there are hundreds of other servers out there where you can scratch that itch.

Players that excessively run statics or farm mobs will continue to feel the heat, because that is not what ALFA is about.

It may not be what ALFA is about, but if you're expecting players to sit in a tavern and chat all day and only do one or two statics... you're dreaming.

[FoamBats4All]

The funny thing is, it is always the players who know a long, long time before DMs about the individuals that choose to piss all over the spirit of ALFA and the idea that our progression is DM moderated.

Players always grumble when action seemingly takes forever against those that, to them, are obviously gaining XP in ways that are against the spirit of this community. Then again, we wouldn't have any of that if we never had players falling outside the standards we have set for ourselves and as Ronan said, the vast majority never fall foul of our rules and guidelines.

4 or 5 months to level 10 has never been an acceptable rate of gain in ALFA, even when it has come from mostly DM sources (eg Daggerford in NWN1 days). If all players want to do when a DM isn't around is farm up a storm, be it static quests or combat, there are hundreds of other servers out there where you can scratch that itch.

Players that excessively run statics or farm mobs will continue to feel the heat, because that is not what ALFA is about.

What, exactly, is the "Spirit of ALFA"? I can look at the pillars, I can look at the admins, I can look at the DMs, and I can look at the players, and find a hundred different "spirits" of ALFA, all of which conflict with each other. I can look at one group, who thinks that ALFA is a non-PW meant for campaign-style sessions with strict DM moderation. I can look at another group who thinks that ALFA isn't even about D&D, and is a platform for roleplay. Yet another group says that ALFA is a PW where the DMs keep a leash on things so it doesn't get out of hand.

All progression is DM or admin moderated. Just because it isn't the same moderation you or another DM would have given does not mean it is invalid.

What I find interesting is that "4 or 5 months to level 10". I will hit level 10 in about that time. But, here's the interesting part of it. I compared my play hours to someone who has played their character for 4 years, and by comparison, I have the logged hours of someone who has played for 2 years. That isn't farming. That's me being an active player. The only possible way you can stop people like me from earning more than people like you is by forcing us to not log in, or discouraging us greatly from doing so. And as I said before, if the Spirit of ALFA is to tell players to fuck off because they play too much, well... ALFA has bigger problems than someone leveling too quickly.

The actually funny thing? The people who took 2 years instead of 6 months to reach level 10 actually made more XP per hour of play than people like me make. By actual hours invested, they level faster, because they're farming DM time and statics and log out, avoiding RP, when there's nothing left to do. There's this huge misconception that people are sitting there farming statics when they're logged in. Most of my logged in time is invested in inns and such, where there's actual roleplay to enjoy.

No one is going around farming up a storm. We hit the same statics you do, and it doesn't give us a single experience point more than you when you do it. Statics are finite, other than the repeatable. And, the repeatables (at least on BG) have a strict and scripted DM-sanctioned limit. There is absolutely nothing on BG that isn't DM moderated, in terms of experience gains (aside from mob XP). You do not like the amount, nor do others, but the fact is that it is moderated. As mentioned, the hole here is mob XP, which can be quickly sorted, and people with the highest mob XP percentages can be given a talking to. I promise you I will be nowhere on that list.

TL;DR: ALFA is moderated. There are just some anal people out there with harsher schedules and less free time than others, who disagree with the admins and HDMs on how moderation should be done.

[Heero]

I think I said it once in this topic already, but Ill say it again: No one is forced to play with anyone else.

I wont play with the obsessive gamers simply because I cant keep up. Its not entirely about levels; its also that, between my logins, their PC has done X, Y, and Z ad infinity while mine has in contrast simply be sitting on its rear. Its silly, so I will try to find partymates and buddies with similar play styles and schedules.

If people are happy logging 10 hours per day and doing statics ad nausea as a means to gaining their xp, let them. Its not for me, and its a free ALFA so I do not have to take part in their play, and neither do you! If the statics are an issue, remove them or make them all single time only.

Like that.

[Swift]

Do I expect it? No, but if you expect ALFA to accept players spending the majority of their non-DM time running statics or killing mobs, you are also dreaming. There has always been acceptable levels of both activities, which can vary based on server conditions (eg TSMs orc plot raised the leniency with regards to out of session orc slaughter due to the situation providing more IC reasons to do so). There had always been unacceptable levels as well, which I imagine will continue to draw scrutiny.

I recall a great deal of discussion about static content in the days of dwindling numbers of ALFA1 and the biggest fear was that if we provided repeatable statics content, players would just farm it when DMs weren't around. Obviously, common sense won out and static content was added and continued to be added, but that original concern still exists.

Also I should clarify that quality of RP is not a concern. We have had fabulous RPers get strikes (and even bans) in the past due to how they chose to play after the DMs logged out. Even many of the recent cases have involved people who are really good RPers. Get a group and a DM around and they are great. It is virtually always the out of session choices that have led to issues.

I truly hope such action has the desired effect in reducing the type of infringing behavior while retaining the top quality RP we pride ourselves on having.

[Adanu]

Do I expect it? No, but if you expect ALFA to accept players spending the majority of their non-DM time running statics or killing mobs, you are also dreaming.

And there in lies the problem. A lot of people seem to think they speak for ALFA as a whole, when what they mean is a niche couple admins who dislike this or not.

I really hope we don't resort to dictating everyones play to one or two specific things because 'it's the spirit of ALFA'.

[kid]

There we go into the debate how XP should be moderated.
By RL or by IG hours. its a fairly long debate.
I can say up till now ALFA has allways measured such things by RL days.

As one of those people who do play long hours I think it is an aweful idea to go by IG hours. I think being able to play long hours and RP and have fun in a reward in itself.
I think playing long hours and advancing faster, likely getting more chances to get DMed and leveling quicker is a reward in itself.

I believe people who play long hours should work extra hard to moderate thier advancement... By all means stay logged and have fun.
Just try to make sure your XP gain does not go through the roof.

If you are unwilling to moderate yourself and wish to run free, roam and do combat and statics to all your hearts content... yes, there are other places for that.
Not here though please.

[Swift]

I am not sure niche comes into it. Farming of statics and spawns has never been acceptable to any administration I can remember. In addition... Admins are elected to guide the community forward and they (usually) are very clear in outlining their platforms and their beliefs for how ALFA should proceed.

I personally find it a shame that ALFA has drifted away from being a low magic, hardcore RP, permadeath world to simply an occasionally hardcore RP world, but that is just me. I am not an admin, nor will I be, so I will not be one to set ALFA on that path since so many do not think that is what ALFA should be. Call me a grizzled vet who thinks the kids need to get off my lawn

[Ithildur]

ALFA has changed, there's no denying that. In of itself it's not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but it has changed. Sometimes it makes me very sad when I remember the old days, and sometimes I'm glad for other changes.The pros and cons of how/what/is that good/is that evil are fuel for another discussion by itself... >.>

I do understand why there is some anger at least on the part of one individual whose situation was apparently handled rather poorly.

However what I find somewhat amusing is folks who've been around for a few months saying 'Don't you dare tell me anything about the 'spirit of ALFA' !' at the folks who've been around for years as DMs, admins, techs, etc. Not that seniority/being around long automatically means one is right (or the inverse, that new folks don't know jack), but usually it does not behoove a newcomer to show up to any community, run afoul of the rules or expectations of the community, then start shouting about the rules and expectations being dumb after they get busted.

There definitely are things about alfa as far as rules and expectations that can be improved and clarified. But this isn't the way to try and win people over to bring positive changes.

But then again... maybe it is. Yelling hard and often unfortunately often does seems to be the way to get results at times here.