Able Learner

[DMyles]

Allows you to take cross skill with no penalty but you are still restricted to a certain number of skill ranks for cross class skills. If you are multiclass however you are no longer restricted as long as you have 1 lvl or a class that gets the skill. For example a rogue 1/fighter 10 could have a hide/ms/tumble score equal to a rogue 11 if he had able learner.

[hollyfant]

Yes. And...?

[DMyles]

I guess as long as everyone is alright with it there is no problem. Does anybody else think there might be something wrong with this?

[HEEGZ]

I suppose if it was open to abuse then it might be. I can bring it up with the standards team if there is a major problem. I don't see anything wrong based on what you've provided, but I am also not very good at building uber-builds either. Hollyfant?

[hollyfant]

Most multi-classed "PG builds" want and need this feat. It's very powerful indeed, which is only partially balanced by the fact that it is to be taken only at first level in ALFA. By canon it's limited to Humans, but copying that prerequisite won't make the "abuse" go away.

I'll have to come clean at this point, I have a character which is abusing/getting the most out of this feat right now. I love it. The one, single feat allows me and other players to engineer our own, Frankenstein-like classes. It really is that powerful. Whether that makes it too powerful, is hard to say. The true benefits only show at higher levels; at second level it's the equivalent of a few hundred gp in skill-boosting gear at best/worst.

Paradoxically, with feats like these making multi-classing available "to the masses" there's no point in designing tweaked-out builds. The feat negates the need to level up in a specific order to get the desired result - potentially disregarding what the character has been experiencing over the course of its life. Just take Able Learner and you're good to go. But whether that's a good thing, is debatable.

There are useless feats, regular feats, nice feats and great feats. Able Learner definitely is a top-tier feat. But there are more of those, and while the feat is great value for money it doesn't yield anything characters shouldn't have.

[Kest]

This feat, 14 INT, and at least one level in rogue/ranger/bard is practically required if you want to have decent skills at all in 3e.

ALFA adding the pnp skills would underline this. 3e has a ridiculous amount of skills.

[DMyles]

I don't really have a problem with it even though I don't think it is exactly cannon. I have experimented with a lot of different builds on the single player and I don't think you can make a multi class that is stronger than a straight druid, cleric or fighter.

It does however undermine the value of a straight rogue build. Rogues already seem in short supply and are weaker than in alfa 1 due to the lack of traps.

[Riotnrrd]

If it does not function according to canon, and if it can be changed, then change it to match canon.

[HEEGZ]

Thank you for the clarifications. What would need to happen to restrict the feat to humans only?

[Ithildur]

Humans are clearly the PGing race of choice.

I don't really buy that a 20 year old human runs circles around a 200 year old elf or 150 year old dwarf in the skills department... but apparently it's canon.

However, it's canon, yes, but pnp doesn't give infravision/low light vision/darkvision to humans for free which nwn2 effectively does. If you do any dungeon crawling this is a HUGE factor, especially for rogues/scouts. This might be one of those cases where trying to follow pnp needs some additional consideration balancewise, unless we figure out a way/decide to implement light penalities and other racial benefits that demihumans get in pnp, which I think is unlikely.

[edit] How hard would it be to introduce low light vision potions that humans would have to spend some coin on? That would help balance things a bit... ah well, different topic that.

[Kest]

There are already low light vision scrolls that no one uses

Does ALFA have any pitch black interiors where light actually serves a purpose?

[furtivefigure]

Does ALFA have any pitch black interiors where light actually serves a purpose?

Oh yes. Atleast, it will once WHL goes live.

[DMyles]

I have actually gone into a few caves where i had to use a torch. They were both dm things but it was total darkness without the torch.

[johnlewismcleod]

Humans are clearly the PGing race of choice.

I don't really buy that a 20 year old human runs circles around a 200 year old elf or 150 year old dwarf in the skills department... but apparently it's canon.

If by powergaming you mean avoidance of racial skill bonuses that don't count because they're "free". then yes. Choosing human allows one to "spend" skill points rather than have them awarded and assigned automatically.

As far as short-lived vs. long-lived differences, one only needs compare the helplessness of a 6 month old baby human to a 6 month old animal to gain some insight into that rationale, but I agree: we need to look into a solution to the exclusion of bonus points from skill use. It makes no sense.

[dob85y]

There are already low light vision scrolls that no one uses

Does ALFA have any pitch black interiors where light actually serves a purpose?

As far as i am aware, Low Light type abilities granted by spells or abilities not granted by race, dont work.

The low light button does not appear, but this information is a few updates old so if im incorrect let me know cause ill have to call Marcus Wands.