Detect Evil and You

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Do you oppose responding to someone's Detect Evil?

Yes, it feels like meta-gaming.
11
19%
No, so long as they do it tastefully.
30
53%
I don't mind either way.
9
16%
Other (Please Post)
7
12%
 
Total votes: 57

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Mayhem
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by Mayhem »

JaydeMoon wrote: Mayhem, I'm interested in hearing an explanation of why 'almost any PC' will con as 'faintly' evil, and especially how it ties to the chart that Dergon posted earlier in this thread.
Sorry - almost any *evil* PC will show up as *only* faintly evil, is what I meant, as a mundane evil creature needs to be 10+ hit dice before it becomes more than "faint"

So the detecting-evil Paladin can't tell the difference, evil wise, between the guard that enjoys the "physical interrogation" of prisoners a little too much, and the multiple murderer.
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Brokenbone
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by Brokenbone »

Comment only on the "anyone is likely only faint" above.

Even neutral aligned priests of evil deities have a very rapidly increasing aura of evil across cleric levels.

Example, LN cleric of Bane, who supports LN worshippers despite LE alignment. The guy isn't himself evil, I guess his deity leaves a stink of evil power on him *shrugs*

1st level - Faint
2nd level - Moderate
5th level - Strong
11th level - Overpowering

Contrast that with a human fighter... serial killer dude, CE for the sake of argument

10th or lower - Faint (note the "or lower!", this means a CE fighter 1 is still "faint")
11th to 25th level - Moderate
26th to 50th level - Strong
51+ - Overwhelming

Yeah the chart gets pretty high, but it's for any evil critter based on hitdice. So think "30 hitdice CE red dragon", probably more common than finding a human PC/NPC with those kind of levels.
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by Zelknolf »

Brokenbone wrote:Example, LN cleric of Bane, who supports LN worshippers despite LE alignment. The guy isn't himself evil, I guess his deity leaves a stink of evil power on him *shrugs*
And a stink of Lawful power!
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JaydeMoon
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by JaydeMoon »

No saves and no mistakes? This, sir, is a fine example of a poor understanding of the rules!
Which is only surpassed by your poor understanding of BBCode:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm wrote:3rd Round
The power and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.[/ quote]
HAR!!!! (your typo is my victory!!! :twisted: )

On track, I do understand the rules and the rules as they are do not serve to undermine my point. I understand there are nifty spells that a well prepared mage could use to stymie detection spells.

And I understand that 'in the thick' there could be all kinds of things going on that could cause 'static interference' (if you will).

However, in a PW, especially a more social PW like... oh, maybe ALFA :P... the time for casting detect evil isn't going to be in the middle of a dungeon, so much as it's in the tavern or around the town square. Generally, you don't have spells of evil going off all over the place. You have a bunch of people standing around and casting detect evil, especially as a spell-like ability as a Paladin, just isn't a difficult thing to do, unnoticed.

Having to wait until you're a 3d or 4th level character to even have a chance of foiling a detect evil, which is available to the Paladin at level 1, that seems a bit unbalanced (to me). Your implication is that it should be relatively easy to find divination blocking magic seems well enough on the surface, and maybe things are different in the NWN2 servers... but from my perspective, "ZOMG, so cheap, it's just the cost of two CLW potions" wasn't a realistic viewpoint for most low level PCs in ALFA.

As for not being able to tell the difference between a 'sadistic guard' and a 'serial killer', I do agree (detecting evil successfully does not necessarily solve all your problems), however, my point is based around my perceived unbalance of the ability in a PW environment (understand Mayhem was responding to a direct question and not embroiling himself in my argument, but I thought I'd clarify). It's not about misleading PCs via red herring NPCs or oversaturation. It's about a player's complete inability to create a neutral evil PC who could ingratiate himself into the 'Company of the White Platypus' for whatever fun and RP inducing purpose he might have thought up, simply because the Company of the White Platypus has a level 1 Paladin in their group who will (not might or can, but will) be able to determine the alignment of the character and disable any chance of success.

Of course, that the ability is unbalanced and overpowered is just my opinion based on 1. the RP and plot possibilities that the ability, as is, shuts down and 2. my assumption that 3.5 was balanced for single party play (a DM and the handful of players he's running), not dynamic PW play (with several groups of PCs and multiple DMs, coexisting in the same environment, all with different and sometimes conflicting agendas). It certainly isn't any sort of factual statement or proof of any realities.

For me, the ability would not be so ridiculous if it offered a saving throw (a simple will save) or if it only detected actively evil creatures.
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bartleby
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by bartleby »

Putting in the detection spells might also help evil PCs in so far as it would make it much harder to be infiltrated by a goody goody ... I mean why would some one exhuding a good aura want to be part of the theives guild or *insert evil church here* must be to infiltrate it ...

Not to say that it wouldnt need some tweaking though to not suck ...
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by johnlewismcleod »

psycho_leo wrote:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

My only problems with detect evil is when people misunderstand the ability or of course when they try to use it as a radar trying to see evil everywhere. It doesn't detect alignment, so while it will pick up the evil cleric of cyric, the maskan rogue will be unnoticed unless he's planning on sticking a knife at your back. That said, back in the days of Daggerdale we allowed paladin PCs to use the ability within the proper rules.
I read the link, and am still a bit confused....is a PC a creature? Or is this ability not applicable to PC's except clerics? And I didn't see anything mentioned about alignments. Does detect evil not detect alignments and only evil intent?
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JaydeMoon
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by JaydeMoon »

Those are all excellent questions, Jean Louis!

Actually, mostly the last one is an excellent question by virtue of being something for individual DMs to determine for their home brew PnP games, and this community as a whole to decide before implementing mechanically supported Detect Evil.

I'm in the 'evil intent' camp, myself, with a view that clerics (and other divine devotees) of evil deities, evil outsiders, and creatures with the evil subtype always have something akin to evil intent going on. Others are of the mind that anything with an evil alignment, even lvl 1 rogues walking their dogs and otherwise minding their own business, will con as at least faintly evil.

I don't think either view is right or wrong, I would venture to say that more of this community probably shares the latter viewpoint. The former is impossible to adjudicate mechanically in any case.
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Brokenbone
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by Brokenbone »

Just to the point of johnlewismcleod, PCs fall into the creature category, unless another category takes precedence, most commonly, cleric-class having. Note evil outsider is also a possible category in ALFA PCs. Say, a NE tiefling fighter. Yes, they count as native outsiders who can't be banished etc. to some hell or other, since they're native to the Prime Material plane, but they seem to fit on that chart and "PING" as badly as clerics of evil deities. I do doubt you'll find undead PCs in ALFA though :P

Note creature feels like the catchall category, good for goblins, orcs, many giants, some % of the human population, etc., ie, anything alive, with an evil alignment, and which doesn't fit into one of the other categories. Again though, they're all FAINT until they get a LOT of hitdice, 10 levels is nothing to sneeze at whether among goblins, or among human, elven, dwarven, and other adventurers.
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bartleby
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by bartleby »

Was there ever a final consensus reached on the ramification of Detection spells In Alfa ... too much upheavel to bother with? A good thing to do with certain modifications to the rules? Heavy modification?
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Re: Detect Evil and You

Post by Magile »

bartleby wrote:Was there ever a final consensus reached on the ramification of Detection spells In Alfa ... too much upheavel to bother with? A good thing to do with certain modifications to the rules? Heavy modification?
I'm using it with DM approval in DM'd sessions and only on NPCs unless accepted otherwise by the player and DM. But that's just me.
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