NON-ECL Drow and Duergar, oh my!

[Rotku]

Can we edit races in NWN2?

[Curmudgeon]

We cannot yet add custom content that will load prior to character creation.

[AcadiusLost]

The complicated answer is that we techically /can/ edit races and add new races, but the lack of these showing in character creation causes a lot of problems (especially if the change indirectly affects other character creation aspects, like skill points from racial +2 INT). Also means we have to work out scripted ways to switch races over after entering the module, which, while not a major barrier, is still a project in itself.

If this idea has enough support to warrant Beta testing via skullport, likely the best course would be allowing the diminished forms of LA races as an option to switch to after character creation (as their own racial constant, leaving the originals as-is for an alternative.

Of course, we'd also have to customize any scripts that check PC races to account for both "Drow" and "Drow-lite", for example.

[Ebonith]

Some of the PW worlds I have visited have custom races at character creation. It would be great if we could figure out how they did it. I will check and see which ones have this option and pass them along. Otherwise, yeah, we may have to customize each PC as they make their decision. A pain, but I would be willing to do it for my players.

[AcadiusLost]

The only way I'm aware of to reliably show custom choices at character creation is by using overrides and/or editing the base game resources (like the dialog.tlk file), which cause problems both with NWN2 patches, and with playing in other communities. I've had to help sort out things for quite a few ALFAns who weren't even aware that other PWs they's tried had monkeyed around with their core game files, and were having real problems as a result.

[Vintenar]

The only way I'm aware of to reliably show custom choices at character creation is by using overrides and/or editing the base game resources (like the dialog.tlk file), which cause problems both with NWN2 patches, and with playing in other communities. I've had to help sort out things for quite a few ALFAns who weren't even aware that other PWs they's tried had monkeyed around with their core game files, and were having real problems as a result.

It seems to me that there will come a point at which it has to be decided; We can either be constantly wanting for content but be convenient to play, or we can have lush customs assets but require a relatively customized client. This appears to be something that pops up in most threads regarding custom races/items/faces etc.

Personally, I would always vote for effort/quality > ease of use.

[mr duncan]

Im one of those people who disagree. In nwn1 we did a lot of bending and flexing to make sure our drow GOT their ECL, now that we have it built in and drow are the way they /should/ be in game... we want to change it back?

I think this is a "problem" that we dont actually have. We have a DM thinking "lets fix this problem the players /might/ have." but I doubt any of the RPers who plan on making drow will decide not to make one cause of the ECL. (in fact if they DO feel that way... I think they /should/ stick with a human or something and let the more serious players get the benefit/warm-fuzzies from playing something a lil rare and exotic.)

Drow are a rare and exotic folk with strange and magical powers, leave them so.

I played an ECL drow in our last system, and I am playing an ECL race right now in game... surrounded by people who dont have an ECL. I know how it feels and I still say if you wanna make up a drow, make one... not a moon elf in blackface tryin to be bad.

I cant help but feel like this is asking for a lot of work that not only do we not really need, but would just sour the whole pot.




J


PS- as far as needing an application goes... I think those are only for planetouched, and for drow running around on our only current server as its a prissy-wonderland of cuddly elves and happy helmites. It would be really sorta retarded to make players go thru an app for a drow on a server that prettymuch a drow city. (sorta)

[Ebonith]

For folks who want to play ECL drow, play ECL drow. Knock yourselves out. This proposal is for folks who want to play drow and see some advancement (i.e. our casual players for one). That is why I propose this option as a player's choice.

Problem? It is definitely not a problem. It is an enchancement option for our playerbase.

By the way, ECL has nothing to do with how a player RP's drow.

Good thoughts.

[Dorn]

I, personally, agree with dunc. Couldn't have said some of it better.

My preference would be to leave the races as they are unless their horribly non-canon. One of the reason drow are so horrible (as well as being evil bastards) is becasue of their superhuman abilities which terrify mere mortals (or at least 'normal' long lived).

And i also dont feel that approvals are needed for all ECL races. As the vast majority of drow PCs would be killed on sight in most places within TSM, BG and Waterdeep (and you wouldn't want to take a Duergar to Mithral Hall im bettin'!), and they are as common as flies on sh!t in skullport, i'm not sure there's a need.

I think the planetouched are enough.

That being said, i wont cry either way

[AsteroidX]

The way Ive seen how custom content was done on other PW's in NwN2 was that you make a dummy character and logg in......the creation haks load...you then logg to the main menu not out of nwn2 completely and then relogg into the PW and make said character with the creation features in place.

I have no clue of the coding they use but have seen this technique used on 2 different worlds. No functionality is transferred to other PW's because of the loggofski and then directly back in I suppose.

[AcadiusLost]

you make a dummy character and logg in......the creation haks load...you then logg to the main menu not out of nwn2 completely and then relogg into the PW and make said character with the creation features in place.

The limited testing I've done with this reported method has so far been unsuccessful. If someone has technical experience with what the server-side end of this is, or a good tech contact from a PW that uses it, I'm certainly interested to talk shop with them. Just send me a PM, and I'll start following it up once I'm back home from the holidays.

[AsteroidX]

I will inquire. I have a group session Wednesday with the group that uses above.

They also have a nice armor changing system and tinter. I cannot tell if it uses a model for each selection but as you can altar single part of armor it may be different then what you have looked at. It uses a tinter as well for further customization. It is part of an involved crafting scenario they have but the actual "finisher" seems separate from my observations. Does require Skill Points invested to utilize finisher etc.......

As I know this is a big community wish list thus I had planned to inquire on its origins. I will send you a PM AL when I get to the bottom of said info.

[Brokenbone]

Topic drift to "how to maybe modify PC races" is good. Brainstorming thread, these things happen.

However, how are we going to find out if there's members of the playerbase desperate to play non-ECL underdarkers? Helps prioritize whether 10-20 hours (possibly wild estimate) of figuring out neighbour PW systems, integrating with ALFA systems, etc., figuring out whether it's worth it. Again, options are nice, but I get the impression most technical heavy lifting is single threaded through one guy.

Since within the last year, the biggest fans of underdark races seemed to scoff at reduced ECL versions, is there perhaps a new segment of the playerbase who'd prefer "Drow Lite" or "Duergar Lite" over the available flavours? Didn't think we'd done that much recruiting in a year, would be a surprise (not a bad one, more members is good) were this so.

[Vintenar]

A good question might also be, if it is a Underdark server, do the players need a app to play a ECL character, since that is of the majority. If not, how is that handled when inter-server transportation is integrated (if it ever is and what form it is under)?

If there is no app for ECL characters on the server, than it seems rather awkward to make a special race just for those who don't want to wait till 3,000 xp to level.

[AsteroidX]

Yes I hijacked the thread briefly. Was going on about a different topic all of a sudden actually.

I would not favor drow-lite..........etc. Seems awkward.