Player run dungeons

[JaydeMoon]

Take two and call me in the morning.

Werd. 3000.

[Kest]

Misty's idea sounds alright.

[Thangorn]

I actually think the OP has a decent idea.. if put in his usual condescending fashion.

If you want to build one for Moonsea go right ahead... we can talk about how those spawns/lewts work out once you've handed it in if you like. The Dungeon can be scripted to take the key off you on the way out anyway so no one can keep it after the session..

This really isn't that much different to what I had in mind (similar to what I've heard ayergo has been developing for BG) for a bunch of scripted dungeons that would require social skills and talking to the right people in the right way to get a key..

And yes plenty of people offer to build things and then run into RL hurdles that prevent them from doing so. I'd just like to take the time to thank the handful of people who offered to build stuff for me recently and then quickly afterwards submitted a swag of new areas for the Moonsea. You guys rock!

[Veilan]

I'd just like to take the time to thank the handful of people who offered to build stuff for me recently and then quickly afterwards submitted a swag of new areas for the Moonsea. You guys rock!

Yes! You rock! (You most certainly don't stone, anyway!)

[Amar]

how about instead we just play D&D where the monsters have loot tables?

[Mayhem]

Monsters carrying loot? What are you, some kind of radical?

[Thangorn]

how about instead we just play D&D where the monsters have loot tables?

Fair enough. Just so long as you realise P'n'P D&D lewts <> NWN2 PW D&D lewts. Can't have 70hrs of uptime a week in P'n'P for starters (although I wish I could at times cause its much more fun than any computer game especially with beer-drinking buddies), also cant have any hours without a DM moulding encounters to fit story and character power.

In pnp D&D, DMs control all the encounters, in NWN2 PW D&D DMs control some of the encounters and some of the encounters are not under immediate DM control.

In D&D there is a thing call game balance which prevents over or underpower based on the plot/campaign the DM wants to run. DM wants to run a planes campaign, usually you'll find magic and lewt are higher. If they are running a more historical campaign, the magic and lewt may be much much lower.

Therefore in PWs, the percieved game balance is extremely different for all contributors and players as for the most part we all have slightly different play styles. What I think is acceptable lewt after nearly 20 years of playing D&D in the the Forgotten Realms setting is going to be completely different to what a brand new, younger, MMORPG player is going to expect in terms of lewt.

Hence I will work with the trammel of game balance in ALFA which is the hashed, rehashed and finally distilled standards. I am happy with the arduous process that many have gone through to develop them and my D&D lewts tables will be based on them.

[Veilan]

Mobs do drop some loot now, so the point is moot. We can't have statical content be a major source of unchecked income for all the reasons Thangs summed up though, I hope that is understood. I wouldn't mind some small work repeatables in the ballpark of a couple gp, just to give players something to do, but by and large the real "solution" is to create a cyborg-DM-team that can be around 24/7... mhm... with advanced targetting computers and scruple overrides...

[Teric neDhalir]

We can't have statical content be a major source of unchecked income for all the reasons Thangs summed up though, I hope that is understood. I wouldn't mind some small work repeatables in the ballpark of a couple gp, just to give players something to do,

Veilan, can you point me at the actual standards guidelines for statics, please? I remember Rusty's original draft, but can't find a final version. It's not with the DM XP thread stickied in the ACR forum.
Cheers,
Teric

[Brokenbone]

I kind of like Misty's idea.

If a bulletin board IG is too hard to create, maintain, whatever, a DM only announcement thread might do, think of it as a rumors / bounties sort of thing.

Example: DM comes on, server is a ghost town for whatever reason, so spend 20 minutes decorating a little bandit camp in some reasonable spot. Maybe there will be encounter appropriate loot stocked there, maybe there will be horribly boring but realistic loot stocked there (gee, a dozen 50lb sacks of grain, some wheels of cheese, bla bla bla), maybe there will be one or more "DM XYZ Loot Tokens" with some lame description of "miscellaneous plunder, see DM XYZ."

Stick a forum post up, indicating some NPC complaining about bandits operating in some region (not giving precise map coordinates or anything), and that rewards for lost property or heads or whatever may be available for certain proof of their being driven off. I've seen some really well written fiction / rumor snippets now and again, I am sure a DM could put together a reasonably fun post, with the OOC ((PM DM XYZ if you & your associates have finished this so we can have a session with that named NPC))

DM can use their discretion / seat of the pants to figure out what an appropriate reward might be, through a mix of grateful NPCs, "Loot Tokens", whether the encounter was a complete pushover or a deadly challenge for whoever stumbled into it, etc. Included in any of their "treasure thinking" is whether they want any clues towards other larger plots to be tossed out ("One of the crates recovered had a false bottom with several holy symbols of Garagos in it, isn't that strange?")

Anyhow, net, I liked Misty's idea, and if tooling bulletin boards and replying on bulletin boards is a pain, DM posts in the relevant forum might be less so.

[Mulu]

There are randomized dungeon mods in NWN1 that basically do exactly that, you talk to questgiver A who gives you a "find monster B in location C for reason D" sort of thing, and that conversation spawns an encounter in that area with a quest token to return for fun and profit. It makes an otherwise very predictable world (gnolls always at location X) into one that actually changes a bit, even in the absence of a DM.

I bet folk would gladly pursue statics that give out CLW potions as rewards.

In general, useful consumables are a good way of giving out wealth that doesn't last.

[wvincenti]

Mobs do drop some loot now, so the point is moot. We can't have statical content be a major source of unchecked income for all the reasons Thangs summed up though, I hope that is understood. I wouldn't mind some small work repeatables in the ballpark of a couple gp, just to give players something to do, but by and large the real "solution" is to create a cyborg-DM-team that can be around 24/7... mhm... with advanced targetting computers and scruple overrides...

I think we might have more than a handful of Players if ALFA worried less about unchecked income. I never lost a wink of sleep over knowing that other peoples' PCs had oodles of loot and mine didn't and I rather enjoyed RPing with most of the wealthy PCs that I met. *shrugs* At least I could find folks to RP with back in the first year after Live. Now it's a miracle if I can find someone on the NWN1 servers. As for having something to do on them *sighs* Shadowdale is now officially deadly dull unless a DM strolls past.

-Bill

[ayergo]

All the admin and DM's are always pissin their pants over players farming and getting a few gold over their wealth limits that NOTHING drops or there are NO CHESTS with loot that makes a boring TSM for the groups of players who consider DM's to be like celebrities because they are so elusive and sought after yet never seen.

Yes! Please! But help me do it on Baldur's Gate. In fact i've done a lot of the work for you and have a randomized, non-farmable static system set up that spawns chests, herbs, spell components, and even corpses for the faith based pcs. They're all tied to skills and randomized so it is not farmable!

[oldgrayrogue]

A bit off topic but consumable or usable lewt rewards is an excellent idea IMO. I would love to see a script that gives a random chance of somthing usuable like a CLW potion or a bunch of goodberries, or *gasp* a trap kit or alchemist fire vial or something spawn in the many chests and barrels found in mob dungeons and caverns throughout the PW. The same script could spawn the mundane stuff like grain and cheese more often. The point is it creates the possibility of finding something neet and useful when you adventure and greatly improves immersion. Crafting components would be even better but that is another can of worms.

For me empty chests and barrels all over the place breaks immersion and eliminates the opportunity for immersion producing RP. Would be nice to RP looking in a chest and having the opportunity to say "Bah! Nothing but stinking cheese!" or "Gods! A barrel full of traps!" Locks and traps on the chests (with a corresponding higher chance of something usable in them) would be great too. I also love that script that "breaks" the contents of the locked chest if you bash it. Just these small changes would do much to improve immmersion and the fun when a DM is not on IMO. They would also make rogues very useful and popular, as currently they are next to useless on TSM except for stealth ability and sneak attack.

So yeah, make the loot consumable, nonsaleable, or even better have some items be saleable for like one or 2 GP only. I doubt this would greatly upset the game economy. We do have the level/wealth standards after all.

Oh and I have no idea how on earth these scripts get created but I know that all you builder and scripter people are like really super intelligent

[AcadiusLost]

For what it's worth, the empty chests/barrels that appear on TSM are/were intended to be the first stage in a randomized placed loot system right along the lines of what Oldgrayrogue suggests. I get the sense that having a lot of empty containers around causes more angst than having no containers at all, if so I can certainly disable those chest/barrel spawns until the system is finished.

All creature templates which are not undead or mindless animals should currently be dropping loot 25% of the time (at 4x our "recommended value"). We may be revisiting these balance decisions a bit down the road.