Vs. Rivermoot

[ThinkTank]

+5 info
-1 moral

[Dorn]

The wind whipped at his cloak and pushed his rain soaked hair back from his face as he stepped out from the rock in front of the huge Red Tiger warrior leading a small hunting party.

He'd done so far enough in front not to shock the man. In the rain things were hard to make out and the Red Tiger carried a very...big....axe.

Kormac smiled inwardly to himself as the Red Tiger growled in annoyance at being surprised. He was a lot older than Kormac and would not like bgin shown up.

'You should watch where you walk Red Tiger' Kormac called out over the wind. His father always said he was shot off at the mouth too much those better and bigger, and he now wondered if baiting the big man had been a wise thing to do.

Most of the tribes respected the Greatworm tribe. Thier range at the base of the mountans saw them at the front line against the orc horde more often than not and all the tribes had been in awe of their former chief and shaman. However this was Red Tiger lands. And had he just insulted a hunting bands leader and experienced warrior?

The big barbarians face turned from scowl to savage grin.

'Maybe you shoudl take your own advice Greatworm' The tribes found it easy to tell one another from dress and markings. Kormac frowned wondering what he meant before his legs were swept from behind and a short ugly sword pressed against his throat for a moment. The big leader and the silent fighter who Kormac had not noticed walking up behind him laughed as the others in the band caught up to see what was happening.

The leaders laughter faded. 'What are you doing here greatworm?'

Kormac rose as the sword was moved. If this had been Grey WOlf of Black Raven he doubted he would have been allowed to rise. And even the Red Tiger were dangerous as some of the most violent of the tribes. He'd have to be careful.

'The town of rivermoot,' he began, a few of the warriors sneered and one spat at the name,' seems to have a warband of Oboulds coming to burn it down. I came to find the SKypony tribe to tell them.'

'Skypony? This is the range of the Red Tiger you foolish pup!!', said the grizzled ranger who had snuck up on him. 'How many orcs?'

Kormac shrugged 'Citybred seem to think several hundred maybe. Something about giants as well.'

The ranger looked him over. 'You're dressed as hunter and you dont know?' he snorted 'Ironhands not teaching her hunters there business now?' The man was baiting Kormac and he knew it. HE strugled to keep his temper.

'I have a different task.' he looked flatly into the eye of the ranger and then turned to the leader. 'If this is your range then i found the right people. I thought you'd be....angry if not invited to fight orcs in your land.'

The leader stood silentlt for a moment the wind and rain howling around him. 'We return to camp. Speak to chief and decide, ' a wild smile looked over his face, 'Maybe we wait until orc attack city then attack them and the city both! Take both enemy at once after they beaten each other down a bit!' He boasted seemingly to be looking at Kormacs reaction.

He shrugged. 'It's your fight now. THe town burning's no loss to me. But i have a different task'

Kormac didn't really care for the cities one way or another. The greatworm were too far for the cities to impinge on their lives. He did doubt the canny Red Tiger chief would sanction attacking the town as then all the citybred may turn on the tribes. ANd the hate of the orcs overrid even the tigers dislike of the cities. Maybe the orcs would get a nasty suprise as they readied for war. If this helped the city...well that didn;t bother him. As long as the horde was diminished.

To be honest to himself he hoed they wouldn't as some of the men in the city seemed worth their salt. He would not have like to see Lem of his other new companions killed by his tribes.

After a few halfhearted insults about his ranging ability from the grizzled ranger the band walked off. At aslightly faster pace than before Kormac noted.

Next time he'd take that old bastard by suprise and the sword would be at the others throat.


Can use or not as i'm not really involved in the quest otherwise darren. Have fun!

[Mikayla]

Vellya reports to Marshall Kadalion signs of thirty orcs or so moving down to the road through the hills near the Wendover ruins. The scouting was done by Oakwater, with Mordak and Velllya backing him up.

[oldgrayrogue]

Two days ago Thoron found the road to High Hold just outside of Rivermoot blocked by a rockslide near to where the road is washed out. A choking mist also lay across the road. He scouted the surrounding wilderness and encountered whom he believed to be the orc leader. After a brief skirmish with him, Thoron retreated to the town and advised the Seargent of the Argent Legion and Marshall Kadalion of what had occurred.

Thoron returned to the area to scout further, and was joined by a quickly assembled force. The force discovered approximately a score of orcs, camped in the wilds and apparently issuing from cave in the valley there. All of the orcs were slain. A pack of wolves led by a dire wolf then issued from the cave and they too were slain. The defenders suffered no casualties. However, the orc leader, who was impervious to attack by bow or blade escaped.

Following the battle, Hyacinthe, joined by Vaya, trapped the vale around the cave that had been used by the orcs.

((Event run by Darren. Also present: Hyacinthe; Emmanuel (now deceased from other causes); Gam and about 6 or 7 other defenders from the town))

[Phineus]

((Event run by Darren. Also present: Hyacinthe; Emmanuel (now deceased from other causes); Gam and about 6 or 7 other defenders from the town))

Glad to know Camerion had a memorable enough role to merit one of the "6 or 7 other defenders from the town"....

[Sintaqx]

Hyacinthe, with the help of Alyssa, Diane, Lucas, and Garath (sp?) trapped a narrow, hidden trail above the plantation which the orcs have used to attack. Anything moving up or down the trail will be squished soundly by large boulders and the trail blocked.

[Mikayla]

So I understand that the Orc vs. Rivermoot Plot has come to an end. Well, this leads me to my first actual disappointment since TSM opened its doors.

The Orc War plot began quite some time ago after Leevoth’s barbarian PC tore through an orc cave. After that, the “war” was on. Various PCs, including mine, got themselves deeply involved in this war. We tried to organize the village, we pulled guard shifts on the village, we scouted, we conducted raids, and we defended against the orc’s attacks.

In my case, I cannot tell you how many hours I spent role-playing guard duty at the Rivermoot bridge. That’s some pretty boring stuff to RP by the way – while other folks were out hunting gnolls, or exploring, or doing whatever, my PC was standing at the edge of the bridge watching the hills – and I was not always alone. Others were equally committed.

Also, in my case, I tried very hard to work with the other players to form a united, cohesive defense, and I tried working with the DMs, sending them my plan for a “sword council” etc., for which I laid the ground work in-character. Other PCs, like Rathalan (Dergon) and Lemuel (Brother Humphrey), did similar things, as did my Red Knight mates, Diane (Sword Saint Musashi) and Lucas (munmun).

But …

Then the DMs launched the climax of this first, long, epic plot without any warning or scheduling – and almost none of the people who had been there from the beginning (like Vellya, Rathalan, Lemuel, etc.) were there to take part. The climactic events were handled by those who happened to be logged in at the time, regardless of whether they were actually involved in the plot from the start, or at any point a long the way.

This left me (and Brother Humphrey and others) going .. huh? Weren’t we a part of this plot? Weren’t we RPing this? Weren’t we trying to work with the DMs on this? And then … BAM.

We are ass-out. And now, my PC, for all her guard-duty, for all her attempts to get Rivermoot’s defenders to cooperate, for all her orc-killing, well, now she wasn’t there for the climactic battle so she ends up taking sh** from other PCs who were there. And frankly, taking IC sh** because of OOC stuff kind of bugs me – the DMs did not warn the players, or work out scheduling, or anything, and now many of us who put our time and energy into this plot, who got invested in this plot, were simply left out of it – and our PCs have to deal with the consequences IC for things that are entirely of OOC origin.

When I logged out before the “climactic” battle, my PC was in Rivermoot to defend it. And when I logged back in, I was in Rivermoot to defend it – but the battle was over. Now I have PCs coming up going “oh, none of you red-suits were there – where were you?” Well .. I dunno – my PC was there, but I was not logged in. I might have been though had I known the climactic battle was coming.

I realize not every person can be involved in every bit of drama and plot – but in this case, there was a group of players who had deeply invested themselves in this plot – and most of us were simply left out at the end. And frankly, that’s a pretty big disappointment. From my perspective, it seems like any effort to get involved, to work with the DMs, was wasted. For example, I never heard back on my suggestions for the sword-council, other than a “we’re considering it” and in-character, an NPC shows up to organize everybody and lead everything. Don’t we players matter? After this, I have to say, it feels like we don’t – at least as far as the plot goes. It feels like all the time we put in guarding, planning, organizing, etc. was just wasted – none of it matter in the end. Yes, it was fun to role-play at the time in its own way, but what’s the point of doing things in a vacuum, where they don’t matter?

Anyway, to me, the way this ended is a disappointment and a great dis-incentive to get deeply involved in the plots.

[kiyoti]

i have to say i wish Vellya HAD been there. At least then the warband never would have ended up getting divided with one part leaving in disgust (the bulk of the elves +1 smart human) and the other part with !BANITES! in it (the reason for the split).

hope the next plot is more fulfilling for you Mik, you put a lot of your time and effort into this one.

[oldgrayrogue]

The war with the orcs is over? *scratches head* I thought it was just the latest battle.

Oh well. In the future if climactic events in major plots can be announced ahead of time (at least to the IC leaders of involved player factions) I think you will end up with more happy players. =)

I had fun with this plot IC, having been involved in several of the attacks and skirmishes along the way, as well as the preparations for the defense. While I appreciate that it is impossible to coordinate every major event with all those involved in the RP, having the option is nice.

Thanks to the players and DM's involved as this was fun regardless of whether it ended without my PC. And Mik, IC Thoron has no idea the war is over, so he and Vellya can go kill lots of orcs together. Heck, maybe we can start another war =P

[ThinkTank]

It was never a War, it was a straight up, few-days-prep defence senario followed up by a single session mass battle which ballooned out of all proportion and ended up dragging itself out over jagged rocks for months with few people having a clue what was going down.

High Level Of Plot Communication + Large Groups = Immersion / Participation

Standard Level Of Plot Communication + Small Groups = Immersion x Participation


ergo: smaller groups = better quality of play

[Wynna]

And why would anybody think all their RP up to this point was wasted? And why would anybody think that closing one chapter of a persistent server means that the entire plot line is over? There are plenty of ways to go from here that involve all of the PCs. One major battle does not mean that the plot will not reverberate down the line. So the Blue Tusks have been beaten back into the hills to lick their wounds. Knowing the motivation behind the orc attacks in the first place I can see half a dozen plotlines that might use this as a "Hobbit to the Lord of the Rings" style opener.

From another angle, we have done our best to hold a major plotline while at the same time finishing the server build. We are a long way from that latter goal but closer. Much of the time I would have spent DMing this and more plots were given over to building and scripting. And I do apologize if the climax seemed rushed. I had been planning it with the knowledge of the other DMs for weeks. I certainly admit that I wanted to get it done before I disappear for a month and a half, leaving everybody unsatisfied. The date was arbitrary, in that sense, but I did my best to make it fit IC. I didn't even consider announcing the attack on the forums as that seemed OOC. Instead, I spent the day before the attack building up to it with small adventures around the server, letting the news trickle out as best I could in as realistic a fashion as I could put into play, sending out word through the PCs who were there. I'm sorry that your PC and many others weren't there. I wanted as many people who had been part of it thus far to be there, also. However, if there had been even more PCs than the 16 that took part that evening, it wouldn't have been any fun for anybody. As it was, it was a lot of work, and that's certainly an understatement.

I think Vellya's disappointment IC is understandable, but for you as the player behind Vellya, please know that I'm doing my best to give everybody a good time. For this most recent past, it appears I failed. Hopefully, in the future, plot continuations can be more successful for you.

[Mikayla]

Wynna

I didn't even consider announcing the attack on the forums as that seemed OOC.

The attack is supposed to come as a surprise to the PCs, not to the Players. And, as a result, you did surprise the players (regardless of whether you surprised the PCs) as many of us who were deeply involved were not there. I think you have to realize that holding out scheduling information from the Players is a poor way to effect surprise on the PCs. Here, the DMs need to seperate IC from OOC and trust the players to act surprised.

You might say that this reflects the "surprise" the orcs would have as not everyone available to defend would be there - but that is fallacious. What you get is the opposite of IC reality - IC "reality" is that my PC (and others) have been living in Rivermoot, day in and day out, waiting for this attack. But because you focussed on surprising the PLAYERS, not the PCs, now we have to somehow ret-con this in game and say we weren't really there ... which is a real pain in the ass for us, not too mention, leaves us facing IC consequences for what amounts to your OOC lack of scheduling.

So, in the future, surprising the PCs is fine - but how about keeping the Players informed?

P.S.

As far as feeling things were wasted:

1) Guarding the bridge. I (and others) stayed, guarding the bridge, so that we would have an IC reason to be there for the climactic battle. This was an IC way to allow for OOC scheduling. Since we are there, guarding that stupid bridge almost all the time, it makes sense we would be around Rivermoot (which, in my PCs case, I was) when the last attack came. But ... all that did not matter. Despite RPing my PCs devotion to guarding the village, because of the lack of scheduling, somehow, she wasn't there.

2) Planning. I spent a lot of time in-character trying to develop the Sword Council. When that was done, I sent the plans to the DMs (Darren). And then ... that was it. I pretty much never heard another thing. An NPC (Battle Priest Aries) comes along, takes charge, and ends up the hero of the war. But, aren't we players supposed to play a role?

Anyway, it feels like I put a lot of effort and time into something only to see it go down the drain, leaving me and my PC to explain over and over why we weren't there for the big battle - which for someone who had been showing her devotion to the village (and stating it) is pretty problematic. Because of the DMs lack of scheduling, my PCs role, reputation, and whole RP have now taken a pretty sharp turn. If the DMs intended that, well, then thats their game, but so far as I can tell these IC consequences are the unintentional fallout of OOC decisions - which bugs me because as a player, I have no say, no input and no means to even influence that.

P.P.S. I'll drop this now, as its over and done with. Just food for thought for the DMs in the future. Surprise the PCs, not the players.

[dergon darkhelm]

fwiw I am using my own completely confabulated IC reason for why rathalan or any others of the coijoint forces troops weren't at the Rivermoot bridge .....

Rath will give you all the details about the special secret mission he and his men were tasked to perform. It involved getting past enemy lines, destroying another outpost, and even taking out a wizard type orc leutenent who, had he not been killed by our able band would have surely laid waste to the village when he arrived.....

If you want, I can even start telling it in a way the has Velya landing the final decapitating blow against the orc wizard

We're heroes! ...the pcs at the bridge just haven't heard that yet

[Twin Axes]

I salute Wynna and all the dms for their fantastic contribution to us players, and for making this place possible. I congratulate the lucky ones who were able to taste the fruits of these labors.

I was not one of them. I have so far missed out on pretty much everything but one small event, and been left behind by most of the PCs I started out with. For a number of weeks now I have been seriously considering quitting TSM and pursuing something less frustrating. Since it is entirely OOC for my particular PC not to have been involved in the routing of the orcs, I am just going to have to pretend that nothing ever happened, and walk off whistling to myself whenever the subject comes up (j/k). I feel with Mik on this one.

Again, I want to state that I understand that it is a matter of logistics, though I agree a little more info pre events on the boards could have been useful. I'm sure everything will improve greatly in a few months.

I feel a little upset, but I'm just going to try to forget about all of this and look forward to better things to come.

[Mitch]

First, like Twin Axes, I want to say that, while being personally dissapointed in missing the battle I think, for the most part the TSM DMs have done a great job of engaging in and keeping the server community active. Nothing is ever going to be handled in a way that pleases everyone, but the fact that we do have DMs that try says a lot about ALFA and their commitment to it.

That being said, I also agree with Mik in her assertion that its more OOC not to warn the community that the most significant plot on the server to date is coming to a head than not.

This is, after all D&D, founded around groups of friends getting together around a table to play, where by definitation every time they got together something was going to happen. Although more often than not that something was an argument over some minutia of the ruleset but that's beside the point

Further, I tend to think the argument that just because this plot line has sort of closed but in so doing opens many more is self defeating. As a player I tend to think there is less incentive to get involved in any over arching plot if there is a significant chance its conclusion will be sprung without prior notice where my character may or may not happen to be on at the time.

And let's face it, we're all adults with responsibilities if you look at time of week devoted to play vs. eveything else, there is a much greater probability of not being on than being on if we haven't made plans before hand.

Wynna, I understand you have commitments that will keep you away from the game over the next few months and wanted to get this plot wrapped up while you had the time, but you should also understand that many of us have RL commitments as well, and would equally like to have had the chance to be involved in that wrap up.

Anyway, I don't want this to come off as a flame or being overly critical. The server is fun to play on whether there is a server wide plot to be involved in or not, but I do think Mik's argument is worth considering. Much better to let the players know beforehand OOC than to leave their characters hanging afterwards IC.