Rules/lore questions

[Dorn]

1) Is Uthgar a nature god? Should rangers of uthgar take divine spells? Can a ranger use scrolls (once a barb goes through the compicated process of learning to read that is!!) I know he's very connected to animals through his beast ttems but just want to make sure what the caper i.



2) What are sorc/pally rules. I think my next character will be one and has a very good RP reason for either (think bahamnut). Is it banned or by discretion of the PA? I Don't REALLY see it as PGer class as multiclassing a you end up with a gimped fighter with some low level spells. But then im not the rulemaker and will comply with whatever's going.

[Joos]

I don't think there are any Bahamut knightly orders in the realms. All references of Bahamut Paladins I can find are about halfdragon extra-planar paladins in cormyr.

And since there are no orders with specific rules, I reckon general class-building rules apply for paladins, ie, all paladin class levels must come consecutively.

List of knightly orders in the realms:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/artic ... hthood.htm

[Zelknolf]

The PG pal/sorc combination would be pal 2/sorc X (i.e. a sorcerer who casts all spells stilled, taking still spell at sorc 1, and accepts that they're less powerful, but enjoys the heavy armor/tower shields/fear immunity/disease immunity/cha to saving throws) If you're building a sorc 1-3/pal X, the accusations of powergaming probably won't happen.

//edit -- as an ammendum, the only build that I'd heard of anyone actually being pursued for powergaming over was a 4 cha surface-dwelling svirfneblin monk. The books talk big, but history shows that ALFA's "powergamed build" rules have no teeth.

Though, the disputes threads and admin decisions thread could easily show you that powergaming play habits are pursued, so don't farm with whatever you make.

[Joos]

Personally, I don't see how anything with Sorc in it could be called PG. *shrugs*

[Joos]

Uthgar is a nature deity, since he's got Animal as a domain.

[Brokenbone]

Page 90 of Faiths & Pantheons has a sidebar thing at page 90:

Complete Nature deity list

[...]All druids and rangers must select one of these deities as their patron. [...] (list includes Aerdrie Faenya, Angharradh, Anhur, Auril, Baervan Wildwanderer, Chauntea, Deep Sashelas, Eldath, Fenmarel Mestarine, Gwaeron Windstorm, Hiatea (monster deity), Isis, Lurue, Malar, Mielikki, Nobanion, Osiris, Rillifane Rallathil, Sebek, Segojan Earthcaller, Sekolah (monster deity), Sheela Peryroyl, Shiallia, Silvanus, Solonor Thelandira, Stronmaus (monster deity), Talona, Talos, Thard Harr, Ubtao, Ulutiu, Umberlee.)

However in NWN1 this wasn't enforced as far as either the "MUST" select one of these deities, or "MUST" select them at or after 4th to enjoy spellcasting abilities. I.e., ranger of Tempus technically was a legal build. I do not think anything has changed in NWN2, ie, spellcasting ranger of say, Gond, may be perfectly legal. Sourcebook purists may not like it, but *shrugs* ALFA NWN1 set the precedent.

...

Anyhow, Uthgar is not a nature deity. His portfolio is the Uthgar barbarians and physical strength, period. Sure there's beast totems per tribe, but the focus is still on the tribe (and I guess physical strength) as opposed to Lions or Bears or whatever. Faiths & Pantheons page 84 the reference point, maybe on ALFA's wiki someplace too.

[Joos]

I would also like to point out that the Forgotten Realms is mostly polytheistic society, and most people worship multiple gods.

I don't think your Ranger should have any problems changing his patron deity to one of the Gods on the list above and still revere Uthgar as well. As long as the DM's are happy with your character sheet, and you can RP your multiple extra-planar allegiances correctly, you should be sweet Dorn.

[hollyfant]

1) Is Uthgar a nature god?

He is, because he has the Animal domain.

Should rangers of uthgar take divine spells?

They can, whether they "should" depends on the character.

Can a ranger use scrolls

Yes, although in NWN1 some of the scrolls aren't tooled right and omit or incorrectly include Rangers.

What are sorc/pally rules.

• Sorcerer X / Paladin Y: no problem
• Paladin X / Sorcerer Y: no problem
• Sorcerer X / Paladin Y / Sorcerer Z: no problem
• Paladin X / Sorcerer Y / Paladin Z: only if you're a knight of the Order of the Golden Lion (Torm)

Multiclassing into class that is "not allowed" will not cause a paladin to fall, they just can't take any more paladin levels.

[Zelknolf]

Can a ranger use scrolls

Yes, although in NWN1 some of the scrolls aren't tooled right and omit or incorrectly include Rangers.

This should have been fixed with the spellhooking changes in 3.02, as part of the fix to omit needless UMD checks. In theory a ranger who attempts to use a scroll of a spell not on his/her spell list would find it ineffective and wasted. (unless said ranger has ranks in Use Magic Device, which would grant him a check)

However, recent romping about the limits of said spellhooking has shown that there are some spells that are not hooked, so it's still technically possible to flawlessly cast some mistooled non-ranger scrolls (or to have a UMD check forced when one isn't truly needed)

[Brokenbone]

1) Is Uthgar a nature god?

He is, because he has the Animal domain.

Should rangers of uthgar take divine spells?

They can, whether they "should" depends on the character.

Can a ranger use scrolls

Yes, although in NWN1 some of the scrolls aren't tooled right and omit or incorrectly include Rangers.

What are sorc/pally rules.

• Sorcerer X / Paladin Y: no problem
• Paladin X / Sorcerer Y: no problem
• Sorcerer X / Paladin Y / Sorcerer Z: no problem
• Paladin X / Sorcerer Y / Paladin Z: only if you're a knight of the Order of the Golden Lion (Torm)

Multiclassing into class that is "not allowed" will not cause a paladin to fall, they just can't take any more paladin levels.

I am not sure where Animal = Nature comes from, compared to the Nature Deity list in Faiths & Pantheons.

If instead judging domains as meaning a "Nature" domain, I am pretty sure about 60% of the domains out there could reasonably be tied to nature. ie:

Air? Well it's an element comprising the natural world. Same with the Fire, Earth and Water domains.

Cold & Sun Domains? Yeah, one's a weather condition, the other hangs in the sky, must be nature.

Healing & Death Domains? One's about life force running through every natural creature, one's relating to the natural end of such.

Plant Domain is also pretty naturey sounding.

...

A few domains, the ones more about concepts (Law, Chaos, Good, Evil, Fury, Destruction) or magicky stuff (Magic, Luck, Protection, Time, Undeath) it'd be harder to argue, I guess.

I think though that's why there's a closed list in F&P p. 90 saying "these are the nature deities." There's thirty of them, it's not like there's a shortage.

***

However, don't worry about it in ALFA, assuming we keep following the NWN1 precedent of letting rangers follow whoever they darn well wish. We officially do not appear to care even if the Ranger is FAITHLESS. Their divine spells simply come from... I don't know, their asses or something. Somewhere there's a thread about this official free pass kind of thing, can't locate it at the moment, some Admin would've pronounced on the matter at some point or other.

Again though, Uthgar is about his chosen people i.e., his portfolio is, his folks, and strength. A portfolio is different than choice in domains. No one is highly likely to fault a Ranger of Uthgar, and even if they do (as a F&P purist), tough for them, ALFA doesn't follow that.

[Magonushi]

I think it was established that rangers could worship any god they wanted to but that if their patron wasn't a nature deity then they wouldn't get any spells.

Am I wrong?

[paazin]

Yeah, the ranger question has come up for me as well, recently

[paazin]

However, don't worry about it in ALFA, assuming we keep following the NWN1 precedent of letting rangers follow whoever they darn well wish. We officially do not appear to care even if the Ranger is FAITHLESS. Their divine spells simply come from... I don't know, their asses or something. Somewhere there's a thread about this official free pass kind of thing, can't locate it at the moment, some Admin would've pronounced on the matter at some point or other.

Unfortunately the game engine pretty much decides for you. Afaik, it's not possible to change deities, easily.

[hollyfant]

I am not sure where Animal = Nature comes from, compared to the Nature Deity list in Faiths & Pantheons.

That's actually a good question. I know gods with the Animal or Plant domain are "nature" deities... but where did I read it? Let me get back to you on that.

[Zelknolf]

Druid Deities
This is a conclusive list of all druid deities: Chauntea, Eldath, Gwaeron Windstrom, Lurue, Malar, Mielikki, Nobanion, Shiallia, Silvanus, Talos, Ubtao, Ulutiu, Umberlee, Anhur, Isis, Osiris, Sebek, Set, Thard Harr, Aerdrie Faenya, Angharradh, Deep Sashelas, Rillifane Fallathil, Baervan Wildwanderer, Segojan Earthcaller and Sheela Peryroyl. See the Deities table above for details on each.

I can't find the decision about rangers getting spells regardless of what deity they have (as long as they have one), either. I want to say it was made in Fall of '06, as I recall thinking it most silly that Rudy's Lathanderite ranger would eventually get spells (well, more that said spells would be about stealth, disguise, and animals, rather than sunshine, healing and makin' babies) and, well, that was back in '06.