What people think of ALFA

AlmightyTDawg · Post by **AlmightyTDawg** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:50 pm

Everyone has different goals and motivations. Some are incompatible with the new ALFA. Keith Mac's "favoritism: can't stop it, shouldn't try" is incompatible with the new ALFA. Cynon's "if I can't have everything you've squelched my dreams" is incompatible with the new ALFA. They're not inherently wrong ways to play - people have to find what works for them. But personally, I don't think they work in any larger than a single controlled table; those approaches are disturbingly suboptimal for our format.

But to think our current direction takes away achievement, striving, RP, or anything like that is painfully ludicrous.

To associate ALFA's current direction with whatever ills existed one - two years ago (real or imagined), is unfortunate - but we're an institution with a past good and bad and some of that's to be expected.

We've gotten better - sometimes by fits and starts, sometimes by steps backwards and overreactions - but this isn't exactly easy ground getting so many people to get along without definitive creative control invested in a small cadre.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:44 am

Rick7475 wrote:
indio wrote:I'm making lots of statics on our new server. As a solo player, I've always relied on solo content, to wit, statics. w00t!

Awesome, I'll be there

I think we can cut down on the abuse with better logs and monitoring. We caught an aweful lot of people before.

Oh please no. Depending on logs and monitoring after the fact is what gave us most of the problems in the first place and created a whole crapload of red tape for DMs to sift through. The abuse of statics come primarily from poor design and a lack of foresight. Level caps, timers, 1 run and decreasing xp are just some ways to keep players from exploiting them.

Better to deside what standards we want as max payoffs for things like FedEx statics and set caps for them:

Cat 1: 10xp & 5gp
Cat 2: 25xp & 10gp
etc...

At least this way, builders have guidelines for the max payoff for the types of statics they create while creativity remains in how they do it.

A concept to consider anyway since payoffs from statics differed wildly from server to server.

Kate

indio · Post by **indio** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:48 am

Well, standards, DM Training and consistency will always remain the admin's primary focus in relaqtion to statics, and well they should. Statics form an integral part of any server I work on and ensuring the front end is in place at the implementation phase will remove the need for log checks at the backend.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:07 am

indio wrote:Well, standards, DM Training and consistency will always remain the admin's primary focus in relaqtion to statics, and well they should. Statics form an integral part of any server I work on and ensuring the front end is in place at the implementation phase will remove the need for log checks at the backend.

I agree with all that. It's just that I've always found that responsibility for exploiting statics resides primarily with the builders of them. Yes gross exploiters should be dealt with but that's like hearding cats if the static is poorly designed in the first place. And the payoff for them has no real standards from server to server.

Statics are critical for any server but as we've seen in the past, they need to be rock solid. That's something that Fionn and I discussed many times when adding stuff to TPI.

Kate

indio · Post by **indio** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:14 am

I've got in the works a persistent static quest system that hopefully, with cipher and AL's help, will come to form a simple and secure means of builders implementing static content. We're working on it now in the NWN2 forums.

Possibly the most important thing with statics is for the builder to be able to apply broad-scale changes easily. If you've got 100 static quests, modifying each one through changing scripts serves as a deterrant enough in itself. But the NWN2 toolset allows generic scripts (about 6 in total) to control all static quests. All that needs to be changed are variable values stored either in conversations or the journal.

So with luck, before builders enter the phase of building lots of statics, we'll have a system through which most statics can be built and easily modified. I've built about 50 statics so far with this system, and while it's got holes with regards to party-wide functions and persistence (this is where AL and cipher will be helping), it's easy to manage.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:19 am

Indio, put in class quests. Let a lvl 1 get his first class quest starting out and then say every 5 levels he has another class quest. Make them interesting, make them fun, let a player get a boost in a weapon or status and you will do something great for our players.

Id love to see something more than just "fetch and deliver" quests. I want to see some real story behind the quests.

indio · Post by **indio** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:33 am

My guess is that generic content caters for everyone, while class, race and alignment quests exclude the majority pretty much every time. So the effort that goes in to statics are easily justified as generic by the builder, because at least then everyone gets the benefit.

The downside is that they're harder to RP, and suffer numerous other ills that unavoidably plague anything generic. So I'd like to put class quests in....maybe I could include something like:

- Warrior quests
- Spiritual quests
- Arcane quests
- Covert Quests

That way I'm not worrying over whether or not my lack of sorcerer quests will leave anyone out.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:37 am

*Revvvvvs the chainsaw* VROOOOM VROOOOM!!!!! AAAIIIIGGHGHHH!!! MWAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! VROOM VVVVVVVRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMM!!! *squeeling an splattering noises*

omg make the quests level based and repeatable as people want. If you are about RP then expect RP when people are doing statics. If someone wants to reach level 2 by logging on every day for a week and doing the same quest 5 times then let them it's boring but why not?

If they want to play a fun session with a DM then encourage it. WHo gives a toss how someone reaches second, arn't you about RP not controlling peoples levelling and crap... omfg i got sucked in I FSCKIng hate you all!!!

Rollocks

Drankathar · Post by **Drankathar** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:06 am

Um.. what?

Anyone else think Cynon should lay off the drugs?

ThinkTank · Post by **ThinkTank** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:30 pm

that or take more.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:13 pm

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:49 pm

I agree completely with Cynon, I have also experienced ALFA from the paranoid side. I had enough one day, when I found a note in my mailbox. It was a threat from Misty to stop powergaming. I thought to myself: OMG! I had really RP'd to the best of my ability, I had refrained from combat for nearly two months real life time. I did not use any combat abilities for my monk, because he lacks training. But I was trying to get a quest going in the sewers, rp'ing along the way. And I returned to the same place more than once, because I had to go back for healing. Yet I was accused of farming. But some dm's are just paranoid here. I wasn't banned or anything, but that message completely drained my desire to play for a long time.

But it's been very fun to be a part of ALFA, even though I'm not the best roleplayer.

Misty · Post by **Misty** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:58 pm

'twas farming, not powergaming.

ThinkTank · Post by **ThinkTank** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:46 am

s'all about people, impartiality is a myth.

Dm your friend? got a player group that likes you? no worrys.

DM hates you and players want you dead? tough break, move along.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:33 am

ThinkTank wrote:
DM hates you and players want you dead? tough break, move along.

Move along how far? Most people in this situation will move along right out of ALFA.