Travel System: Take 27

[Inaubryn]

Yes, this has been talked about to death. But, we still do not have a theoretically workable system. I say theoretically, because we need to take into account we will have no idea what can truly be done until we receive the game in hand. Other than that, what I'd like to see here is people post their ideas, comments, or suggestions on what they believe to be the best in-game travel system that will ICly allow PCs to converge in some manner. This is to get PCs who may be isolated from other PCs to places where other PCs are. My proposed caravan system is as follows:

We create caravans at various points that a PC can use once every 8 in-game hours. The caravan would theoretically use the world map and would be set up for random encounters. It would have a list of several different places it would stop at, including other caravan points that go elsewhere. The PC would sign on as a guard. Nothing novel there, you say. Aye, here's the rub. Instead of the caravan costing an adventurer money, which is a silly concept since they're supposed to be guarding the damn thing, the caravan master pays the PC. hah!

The PC(s) would get paid somethin' like 2 gp per level per trip. So a 1st level PC could make 2gp per trip and a 10th level PC could make 20gp per trip. It ain't much but it's a little somethin' in your pocket and you can get where you're goin' ICly.

Now, this could also be abused for PCs to make many dolla' or server-hop (wasn't that a song way back when?) especially with connectin' caravans in play. But, we safeguard against that like so:

A PC(s) can only take 2 trips in any 8 hour span on any number of caravans. This should be enough to get them to most servers in ALFA. And this could be done by markin' PCs with local variables.

A PC(s) cannot take the same caravan twice in any 8 hour span.

Caravans would run inter-server (different servers) and intra-server (same server).

Boats could be done in much the same fashion. Post your own ideas, or thoughts on any other idea that appears here.

[Mayhem]

That assumes, incorrectly, that all PCs are the type who can sign on as a caravan guard. I've met several characters who wouldn't dream of doing such a thing.

I think that the gold should be taken out of the equation utterly. Assume that the amount of gold earned by work (guard duty or otherwise) done by the PC on the journey is exactly equal to the cost of making the trip.

Or conversely, that for a "snob" who refuses to work for a living, that the amount of gold spent on a non-working passage is trivial compared to his actual means.

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WHat you need, I think, is a system that prevents PCs from making instantaneous transitions between servers (or far apart locations on said servers), rewards those that choose to spend their in-game hours RPing out their travel time, but does not prevent players with limited play-time from travelling.

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I would personally love to see long distance travel take time, but for it to take into account "down time"

So that if I book passage to Waterdeep and board ship, then log off, and log back on hours later, I've arrived.

A simple encounter system could perhaps be added for those that choose to *not* log off, so that they might earn a few XP/coin should their caravan/vessel be attacked.


That way, you get:

Players aboard ship/in caravan with other players can choose to stay online and RP with each other. Whether this be ship-board romance, or a version of "murder on the orient express"

Players on a long trip without other PCs can choose to stay online and meet whatever might be on the road (which mght no be hazardous, - could easily be a travelling merchant instaed of a band of orcs)

Players who don't have the time to spare or don't think they are up to the hazards of the road can log off, and are assumed to be cowering/resting in the wagons if anything does happen.

Players cannot hop to one server to another in the course of a minute.

[Blackwill]

Well said Mayhem. I couldn't agree more.

My basic points:
- Travel system by caravan shouldn't be the only way for PCs to travel. Going on foot, on your own, should be possible, like it is now. Except over sea of course.
- In an ideal world, it should take some time before arriving. Like Mayhem said, prefferably in real time.
- Possible encounters are a big plus.

The rest of proposed system sounds good in theory so far.

[Mayhem]

I guess in order to implement that, we would need a travel server.

However, if that server were made open to all GMs, you could actually have encounters with NPCs - good guys or badguys - *during* long distance travel.

Not quite sure how well the system would handle two PCs that start the same 8 hour journey an hour apart, but we fudge an awful lot more than that at the moment so I don't see it as being an issue.

(Long distance travel is on my mind at the moment, since my voyage back from the UK last night - that was supposed to dock at 8:30, didn't get in until 4 hours later - by the end of the first 2 hours delay I'd have welcomed the chance to either Log Off, or fight off an encounter with Pirates.)

[dergon darkhelm]

I have just a few thoughts....

1) Interserver travel time should be able to be overrideen by DMs (like it could be with the current visa system).

Maybe it's a pipe dream, but I am hopeful that there will many more cross-server/ global plotlines in ALFA's NWN2 incarnation. DMs should be a ble to say "your journey was uneventful" as they would in PnP if they desired.

2) I think it would be a poor idea to make any interserver travel take much longer than a day RL. I know that there would be some lack of realism to not making the time:distance ratios match, but that would be overridden by the benefit of not having players out of the game for extended periods.

3) Interserver travel from which the portals on each side are contiguous points should be freely crossable. (An example that comes to mind is leaving WD from the South heading to Daggerford. The portals on each server represent roughly the same location)...........no additional time should be needed to make such server transitions.

4) I like the "pay for security during travel"/"get paid to work the caravan and maybe have to fight" notion. The travel time should remain fixed regardless of which option is taken, though.

[Keith Mac]

I think you have a great Idea....the convo should give two options...One for the PC who wishes to be hired on and make some coin, who in turn has the possibility of fending off an attack/random encounter.....and the other for the PC who wishes to pay for their trip in which case they would be a passenger and not be obligated to fight(If people thought it was too silly then you could just reduce the % chance of a paid customer having to participate in a random encounter)

I personally think that most of these should only be able to be used once per day/period...like a static spawn(So realistically two pc's could not use the same caravan after it has left)...aside from larger caravan sites which would have multiple wagons/horses/Ballons

Travel system by caravan shouldn't be the only way for PCs to travel. Going on foot, on your own, should be possible, like it is now. Except over sea of course

.(What he said)

Boats running in the same fashion I agree with as well....

I personally do not like the idea of making anything take more then 1 RL day regardless of how long the travel is...this is supposed to be fun after all.......

To prevent "worry" of abuse in regards to server travel....why not make it mandatory to PM a Hdm/Eadm with any travel that will be made to another server....The PC does not have to wait for a response more then One RL day(If the server is a Border server then they do not have to wait at all)....the DM can either choose to say yes or not respond....or can simply say No for whatever IG reasons would prevent such...(Ie; they think you are being unrealistic with your constant travel or there is a border War and travel should only accompany a DM for obvious reasons)

[darrenhfx]

I like the idea of having a caravan (or ship) arrive every x hours. It would be great to have these schedules modified by wand to allow for delays due to weather, bandits, war, hungry hungry dragons, etc.

[Stormseeker]

Pay or get paid is great. Forget the idea of taking so much real time to travel. After all during a long dm event that last rl 8hrs we ignore the time that past.
Schedule times for a caravan is fine to...but not the idea of only so many caravans leaving a day..after all if you have a big party traveling together they would all ride the same caravan.

[fluffmonster]

I have faith the universe will unfold as it should.

[Mulu]

DMs should be a ble to say "your journey was uneventful" as they would in PnP if they desired.

ALFA isn't even *close* to PnP. It's a simulationist CRPG environment. We play PnP style over at NWC, and it's night and day different from ALFA.

ALFA also tends to be DM-less at any given time, so any system that requires an active DM to implement will be ineffective. Players like to be able to run their own plots too. In fact, I've run multiple player plots that involved traveling to and from another server. My very first player plot in ALFA was me and Grand Fromage taking our PC's from Shadowdale to Arabel to go shopping and eat out at a restaurant. That required not one but *two* server hops, one way. (Gosh, weren't we the evil powergaming server hoppers!)* Putting in a one hour or god forbid one day RL delay on server transitions would have made that not worth doing, in fact it would be beyond retarded; it would kill any ability to include travel in player plots.

Seriously, you people need to wake up and realize that traveling isn't evil, that people are here to roleplay, and that player driven plots are just as valid as DM driven ones. Trust your playerbase to use travel wisely, ban those few bad apples who abuse it, and just play the game.

* (As an aside, Vala spent all 1000 of her gold on that trip, on dresses...)

[Mayhem]

Putting in a one hour or god forbid one day RL delay on server transitions would have made not worth doing...

Isn't that the point though?

Baring use of magic, I thought we actively wanted to avoid folks having Breakfast in Baldurs gate, popping up for lunch in Yartar, and being home in time for tea.

If a character decides that he simply can't justify travelling 1000 miles because its too inconvenient, well, isn't that kind of the effect we were looking for?

it would kill any ability to include travel in player plots

Actually, the opposite. It would *enable* plots that included the RP of travelling. You would have in place a platform in which you could RP the actual travelling to your hearts content.

From the way you describe your example, you didn't RP the journey, you RP'd the departure and the arrival. You didn't RP the fact that such a massive journey was an equally massive undertaking, rather you totally glossed over it.

What it would kill is the ability of characters to make epic journeys in trivial times for trivial reasons.

***

At the same time, by allowing downtime to count for distance travel, you could still make long journeys without losing valuable IC time. It would take a little advance planning, but a journey of several hundred miles ought to, don't you think?

[Mulu]

Actually, the opposite. It would *enable* plots that included the RP of travelling. You would have in place a platform in which you could RP the actual travelling to your hearts content.

Nice try, but you can't RP if you're not logged in....

Isn't that the point though?

And, no. The *point* is to frustrate powergamers, at the expense of storytelling.

One more...

It would take a little advance planning, but a journey of several hundred miles ought to, don't you think?

It doesn't in PnP. Or when it does, it's being DM'ed and is part of the story, not just some stupid scripted mechanic.

[Fionn]

Pay for safe travel, hire for % risk sounds good. Obviously, downtime travel isn't possible with risk.

I don't like the 8 hour or 2/day meta rules. Simply have caravans on (random?) schedules. Perhaps include an express that can usually be hired immediately.

[Ronan]

ALFA isn't even *close* to PnP. It's a simulationist CRPG environment. We play PnP style over at NWC, and it's night and day different from ALFA.

There is no style of PnP, its all the individual DM. Some are extremely simulationist. I'd say D&D has far more simulationist rules than ALFA implements, by a large, large margin. In PnP the DM is just free to ignore them.

It would take a little advance planning, but a journey of several hundred miles ought to, don't you think?

It doesn't in PnP. Or when it does, it's being DM'ed and is part of the story, not just some stupid scripted mechanic.

There is no "the story" in ALFA, or any PW really. Its a combination of many stories formed through many different DMs, PCs, simulations, freak rolls of the dice, etc. The NWN environment alone keeps a lot of narrative DMing from happening, since we can't fudge most die rolls with any grace at all.

So, in the interest of "the" story, we can't force people to log out, or wait for a DM. Because then their story would stop, with PCs not being able to play. I won't implement anything like that while I'm the Tech Admin. If we can do something to make travel an adventure, then great, but the area overhead may require its own server. But then this is why I prefer closer servers to farther ones, and I know most people in ALFA don't share my opinion.

If we can't make travel an enjoyable adventure, I don't see any of these restrictions worth doing. As the responses on the proximity poll showed, people aren't interested in remaining faithful to the setting when it comes to travel. Sorry.

[Mulu]

What it would kill is the ability of characters to make epic journeys in trivial times for trivial reasons.

Gosh, I found another.

Playing the game is never a trivial reason. Or, more accurately, the day it becomes one, it's time to close the doors on this NWN project and just turn it into a MUD.