Hide PC levels?

[Mulu]

What we need is twofold, an elimination of the pure meta info at login, and the ability to "observe" PC's more than just their stated descriptions, i.e. some sort of widget that gives you a sense of their stats and skills, but that could be blocked by a disguise, e.g. a cloak and hood.

In an ideal world, of course.

[darrenhfx]

Just out of curiosity... I've never played on any sort of MMO, do you get a meta read on the other players' stats?

[MorbidKate]

A lot of resources devoted to preventing 'casual' metagaming for Cvc. Trust me, those that want to will get the data.

The effect of seeing a person's class and level at login goes way beyond any concerns over the rare few who CvC. It affects RP, especially on servers where tension between players and/or factions is a constant. I've seen far too many players act differently from one first meeting to another based soley on what they saw when they logged in. Remove Class and Level and the RP can only benefit from it.

I have always gotten a kick out of playing my PC and have new players meet me for the first time with great suspicion cause they logged in after me. Any player with an Evil Class can tell you stories about it I'm sure.

Kate

[fluffmonster]

I always look. I can't help myself.

[MorbidKate]

I always look. I can't help myself.

We all do, if only to see if our RP mates are online. I see nothing but benefit from stripping Class and Level from the Player List.

Kate

[Ronan]

Guys, it was never a question on whether or not we wanted to hide this meta information. We just don't know how without spending incredible effort.

[Grand Fromage]

The biggest problem IMO with alfa is the lack of information...I find this as a player and also as a DM...There would simply be so much more information available to PC's then ALFA permits...Many here think that everything must be found out while Logged into the Game....I for one think that is BS and really hurts the Players who cant spend countless hours online

Any comments on this one?

It's foolish. All information must be learned IC, or it's cheating. This is a RP game, not a MMO.

What are the chances that this has been brought up by enough people that the class and level are going to be left off of the login screen in NWN2?

Obsidian has already said the available information on the login screen will be even more detailed than NWN, specifically including the current location of everyone who is logged in, and possibly more that they haven't mentioned yet.

[Keith Mac]

It's foolish. All information must be learned IC, or it's cheating. This is a RP game, not a MMO.

That doesn't even make any sense....It is quite the oppositte actually.....are you actually saying that it would be cheating to learn of information through PM's and Publick posts that you WOULD KNOW but simply don't have the countless hours and appropriate play times to find out while Logged into the actual Game...Quite rediculous!

I think there are many here who share the same feeling as GF....I am curious as to the general consensus...It hurts the community to be frusterated with the lack of common knowledge that would be available in PnP through simple DM to Player conversation....

[Dorn]

I always look. I can't help myself.

Don't get me wrong. I may profess the higher road...but i've always been a low road man like fluff

[Mayhem]

On the one hand, it would be great to have levels and class hidden, so that the guy that behaves like bully towards newbies that he has never met before isn't able to suddenly go all polite when meeting somebody who can kick his ass.

However, some sort of reputation/timescale system might be in order, to represent the rumours you might have heard about somebody.

Even if it was only a "Public Knowledge" folder kept about regulars on a server.

EG, it ought to be public knowledge to anyone gossiping in my home area that my PC has been around the area for ages, and is known to have fought against certain local enemies in defence of the town. Some of the info might be apocrophyl, but it would serve to let a fledging character know he shouldn't go picking a fight.

Conversely, when I visit another part of faerun, its likely that nobody has ever heard of me and I should be treated exactly the same way by the locals as any other newly arrived character in town - wether that be polite or bullish- without them making that choice based on how my level compares to theirs.

[Shaugg]

I've seen all the stuff required to do this on other servers. Ravenloft, Prisoners of the Myst has scripting so no parties are allowed. You don't see the damage others are doing unless they are doing it directly to you. Exp is given according to proximity to what dies (or something). They also give Exp for Rping (typing stuff) You never actually know how much exp you get you just see 'exp earned' in the combat log. You also can’t see exp on your character sheet, when you rest it checks the total and if it is enough you lvl. A very impressive Exp system on that server. I recommended anyone who is interested in customized Exp delivery check it out.

One of the Anaphillia servers had a no party system as well.

I have seen widgets which serve to provide more details about other PCs. Such as a guess as to how much value the clothing they wear is worth, and fame. Fame in this case was set by DMs who observed actions. Ah yes, server was called Tales of Talisan. I think your PCs appraisal and bluff skills affected the accuracy of the action.

Tale of Talisan was also divided between two servers and when you ATed you were automatically ported to the other server. Also if you logged into the wrong server you would automatically be ported to the last server you were on. This could also be done with a few starting servers limited to a population of 1. The only problem would occur when two players sign on at the exact same time which should be rare, otherwise the second player gets the boot message prior to even getting to the login screen (at least under the current system) It would be important to have a few of these miniservers to allow people access when someone else decides to make a PC as that can take a lot of time.

Perhaps someone who has time, interest, and is more knowledgeable about scripting can contact these servers, see how it could work for ALFA, and perhaps borrow some of their talent.

I think it would be very difficult to get someone’s level and class with these systems. You don’t see sneak attack, little blue floating numbers, disarm attempts, ect, from other players. I think most of the benefit is to prevent unintentional metagaming.

[Cynon]

I'd give my soul to be able to have people see nothing but the name of my character and the portrait when they log on.

Then again at the same time i'd be trying to get it back again to give again, so i could see this info of everyone elses PC's.

Regarding a notorious past PC of mine that some people might have known... It would have made the game so much different and vastly more enjoyable for myself, those with PC's like mine and possibly those who we came into contact with, IF there had been no indication of our levels or classes upon the login screens.

The RP potentials i can think of For NWN2 characters if we could get rid of the login meta would be awsome.

Can you imagine, blackguards dressed as paladins joining the 3rd circle and paladins made up like thuggish fighters infiltrating thieves guilds, gangs of bullies all finding themselves in the morgue realising they picked on the wrong visitor to town that evening.

In general, players would never be completely sure who they were dealing with. Meta wouldn't be unavoidable but it would be untrustable. That makes life so much harder for everyone and thus, the element of respect between players, (something that is horrendously lacking in ALFA) would become a neccessary tool for survival.

It would be a further bonus if those who DMed, did so exclusivley, but to be honest the risk of being a dirty DM just wouldn't be worth it the way people react when they are suspicious around here.

Awsome! get rid of it all!

Do a poll, PLEEEEEAAASE!!!

[Ronan]

There is nothing to vote on. We just can't do it, or we would have a long-arse time ago. Maybe with NWNx4...

[Stormseeker]

Well i looked from time to time on log in, never stopped me from challenging higher levels.*grins*
I do like the ability to see who is playing, that way pm's are sent to hook up to play. Could care less about levels or class, infact i would play evil more often if the class was just remove.

[Cassiel]

Erk - it tells you where people are too? Jesus.

"Bob the Friendly - current location: hidden temple of Shar"

Helloooooo, meta.

Still - we'll have to make the best of it.