A Foreign Policy Success

[ç i p h é r]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071105/ap_ ... as_nuclear

[Mulu]

/me remembers that under Clinton N. Korea didn't *have* an operating nuclear program.

[ç i p h é r]

Well it's true that we were giving North Korea economic incentives in exchange for keeping their reactor inactive, but the latest development sounds to me like a much more significant achievement: Actually dismantling their nuclear reactor altogether. The report is rather thin on details though but maybe we'll learn more in the coming days.

[JaydeMoon]

That's all well and good. Until the north gets their panties in a bunch about one thing or another, claims that no one else is holding up their end of the bargain, rattles their stick and resumes nuclear testing.

I have studied aspects of the North Korea 'problem' for over a decade. I have hope that this is a strong and permanent step, but experience dictates otherwise.

[Burt]

So why shouldn't they be allowed nuclear power/weapons exactly?

[Lusipher]

because their nutjob leader is crazy enough to use those weapons on anyone who pisses him off...not just the usa.

[JaydeMoon]

So why shouldn't they be allowed nuclear power/weapons exactly?

Because they aren't the USA.

Seriously, what Danubus said was pretty spot on.

Many people might sit down and say, "Why shouldn't everyone be able to arm themselves, why should only America have nukes?"

That's because they're dumB.

NO ONE should have nukes. At the very least no one NEW should get nukes. I'm for 100% disarmament. However, I'm also not dumB and I realize that such pipedreams are for that part of the race that evolution will eventually remove from the planet. So, at least make it so there's no additions to the list of who has nukes.

It's like a neighborhood block where you wouldn't put it past any one of your neighbors to shoot another. So you don't want any of them to get guns. ESPECIALLY your neighbors who are nutjobs, your neighbors who are religious fanatics, your neighbors who beat their wives, your neighbors who sell drugs, your neighbors who are fueding with one another, etc. Because all of THOSE neighbors are the ones who just might actually USE those guns.

[Nyarlathotep]

Thats the thing about non-proliferation, as time passes and the science behind it becomes much more widespread eventually any nation that wants to build one and has assess too the proper materials will do so. Right now we are at the "finger in the dam stage" but that will only last for a few more decades at best.

It is both a frightening proposition as it greatly increases the chances of the weapons falling into the hands of someone willing to use them but also hopeful as it will also make the use of conventional warfare between nuclear club nations far less probable (though it will do little to prevent the funding or cultivation of non-governemental extremist groups as the India/Pakistan model of nuclear detente has shown).

[fluffmonster]

I'm not so worried about Kim using any nuclear weapons he has. Rather more worrisome is that he's sold every weapons system he's ever gotten his hands on to somebody else.

[Mulu]

I agree and think we essentially live in a time where nations don't use nukes. Groups would though.

[Rotku]

So why don't they take a similar approach with Iran?

[Grand Fromage]

I'm not so worried about Kim using any nuclear weapons he has. Rather more worrisome is that he's sold every weapons system he's ever gotten his hands on to somebody else.

Yeah. Kim Jong-Il, contrary to popular belief, is not stupid or crazy. He's an oppressive dictatorial asshole, clinging to a modified Stalinist ideology, but shit like the nuclear program, the guns pointed at Seoul, etc are bargaining tools. He knows he can't do anything without being obliterated.

The operative part is he knows he can't do anything...

[JaydeMoon]

I would beg to differ, GF on your statement.

While he definitely isn't stupid, his thinking is not completely based in logic or reality.

I mean, this is a country where they built highways and big hotels and stuff simply to 'look wealthy'... despite the fact that empty highways creates a desolate look that engenders more negative feelings...

Where he maintains the third largest military force in the world but with soviet equipment from world war II. Where Daffy Duck is a favorite, he kidnaps South Korean Actresses so he can direct them in movies, he spent one fifth of UN aid in 98 on a fleet of Benzs.

He was not respected by his father really and is a very short, insecure guy. When a general attempted to stage a coup, he had that entire Army Corp removed. When he had to quit smoking, he required all senior officers in the military to stop as well.

Yeah, the guys definitely not right in the head.

But crazy like a fox, as they say.

[Rick7475]

Kim Jong-Il likes his little empire, all his hot Korean babes that'll do anything for food, his Hollywood western movie collection, and wants to be part of the cool "respected" leader club. All the little emperor wanna-bees look up to him because he got nukes and got the US pissed. He's a fat little turd that starves his people to death while he dines off their pathetic existance. China lets him get away with it all because he continually pisses the US off, and they get a kick out of it, except when he goes too far, like with the nuke thing, then they get pissed, which is why he made the deal.


Iran, OTOH, is scary. But after a million Iranians died in a war using the most medieval battlefield tactics against a more modern Iraqi army, that country is going to implode; hopefully sooner than later.

[danielmn]

Burt, technically, because of the nonproliferation treaty N. Korea signed, then went against and then ultimately withdrew from...pretty much everyone has their eyes on N. Korea because they've been the only country to withdraw from the treaty..which makes everyone despise them. YAY!