Just remember

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:54 pm

When you hear the White House report on Iraq next week, all statistics showing a decrease in attacks during the hottest part of the summer this year are evidence of nothing more than that it is really hot in Iraq in the summer. Same thing happened last year and the year before, without a surge. That's why the White House picked September to do it's report, because it's after July and August, consistently the slowest months of the conflict. Petraeus will then purposefully misinterpret that summer slowdown as a trend due to the success of the surge and the fight going out of the insurgency. He probably won't say "last throes," but he'll say something similar. If you really want to compare numbers, look at the same months from last year.

Just a reminder before the propaganda blitz that is to come. There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics.

Zakharra · Post by **Zakharra** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:20 pm

So it can't be partially from the surge itself... No, can't give that credit..

mxlm · Post by **mxlm** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:26 pm

Don't confuse the Surge with strategy

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:57 pm

So, Mulu, what you're saying is that we're winning the war in Iraq now?

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:13 pm

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:17 pm

Zakharra wrote:So it can't be partially from the surge itself...

No, it's just the normal summer reduction due to extreme heat. Now, there are many other issues regarding Iraq besides a simple number comparison of casualties, but that one issue will be presented in a grossly misleading manner. As for the rest, I'll have to hear it first.

Zakharra · Post by **Zakharra** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:41 pm

Mulu wrote:
Zakharra wrote:So it can't be partially from the surge itself...
No, it's just the normal summer reduction due to extreme heat. Now, there are many other issues regarding Iraq besides a simple number comparison of casualties, but that one issue will be presented in a grossly misleading manner. As for the rest, I'll have to hear it first.

Uh huh.. I see. The US military can never do anything to help the situation in Iraq then.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:11 am

Mulu wrote:There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics.

Which, ironically, serve as the only basis for your own conclusions.

Mxlm wrote:Don't confuse the Surge with strategy

And to speak to that point, news reports I've listened to point out real progress on the ground where the US has established direct relations with local Sunni tribal leaders. The net result is that insurgents are being pushed out of these areas permanently.

My suggestion is to give the commentary a rest and judge the war effort once something definitive actually takes root.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:32 am

For how long? Without a definition of what constitutes significant progress, or failure for that matter, we're left with an unending commitment. For every news report of progress there are two showing losses.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:33 am

Zakharra wrote: Uh huh.. I see. The US military can never do anything to help the situation in Iraq then.

Force can only solve so many problems, and it often creates as many as it solves.

mxlm · Post by **mxlm** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:53 am

And to speak to that point, news reports I've listened to point out real progress on the ground where the US has established direct relations with local Sunni tribal leaders. The net result is that insurgents are being pushed out of these areas permanently.

Which, it should be pointed out, little to do with the surge--or the new (and more sensible, in my view) approach that came with Petraeus. The flipping of Anbar goes back to '06.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:28 am

Oh shut up

You liberal dipwads just cant believe something is actually working. You wont give Bush any credit for the economy and you wont give him any credit for the surge slowly working.

I wish you guys would go live in France and be happy. Your all a bunch of pussy whiny children.

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:37 am

Danubus wrote:Oh shut up

You liberal dipwads just cant believe something is actually working. You wont give Bush any credit for the economy and you wont give him any credit for the surge slowly working.

I wish you guys would go live in France and be happy. Your all a bunch of pussy whiny children.

Quoted for truth, and sigged on my email account.

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:25 am

Nekulor wrote:
Danubus wrote:Oh shut up

You liberal dipwads just cant believe something is actually working. You wont give Bush any credit for the economy and you wont give him any credit for the surge slowly working.

I wish you guys would go live in France and be happy. Your all a bunch of pussy whiny children.
Quoted for truth, and sigged on my email account.

Zakharra · Post by **Zakharra** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:52 am

Mulu wrote:
Zakharra wrote: Uh huh.. I see. The US military can never do anything to help the situation in Iraq then.
Force can only solve so many problems, and it often creates as many as it solves.

That is true. The same is true for diplomancy. Which has been known to cause wars too. Both solve and cause problems, but it looks like you are wanting to credit anything else (the heat, Sunni warlords, school children, the ful moon, whatever), but the military. I'm not saying that it's the sole cause, but it does have a part to play in it. With everything else, in reducing the violence in Anbar providence.

This world is run by the aggressive use of force. Get used to it.

A Land Far Away

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Just remember

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