Bullying Discussion

[zicada]

mockery is acceptable between friends.

So its unacceptable here because...

Let me clarify then. Mockery wasn't probably the best way to describe it. What happened was a bunch of guys piling on and trolling a poster. It's very different from friendly banter.

No, that isnt what happened. There was no malevolence at all. Nobody were "out to get" Mick. It was simply a way to practically point out what Mulu put very well a few posts up. Also, it was pretty funny.

[Mikayla]

Mockery is not acceptable between all friends. I have some friends I can mock (and be mocked by) and tease and such and they are fine with it, and I have friends whose sense of humor does not go that way, and they take offense. In addition, this was not friendly mocking, however funny folks thought it was, it was mocking to make light of Mick's heartfelt post and the complaints about bullying in general. Why? Because the people doing the mocking are the very people being complained about. And the mocking, the series of spoof-posts making light of what Mick said is exactly the kind of mobbing Wynna's articles are discussing.

Now, some people, primarily the mockers, are claiming this is all in fun and there is no mocking and bullying. Sure - not to you. Not from your perspective - but whether something constitutes bullying is subjective - its in the eye, or the heart, of the beholder (or in this case, the victim). Sure, the mockers don't see the harm in it - its all good fun to them - but obviously Mick was not laughing about it. Its not bullying to the mockers because they are the ones doing it, and the ones who like this caustic atmosphere they've created. But not all of us do. And those folks are being pushed out, because who wants to spend their time taking crap from a bunch of juvenile bullies whose major purpose in ALFA is to make each other laugh at other people's expense?

Like I said earlier, if we allow ALFA to be a place where you have to be a thick-skinned troll to survive, then all that will be left in ALFA are the thick-skinned trolls. At that is surely the direction we are headed - and by the way, the Four a**hats of the ALFApocalypse are nothing so sexy and ominous as Death, Pestilence, etc. from some juvenile reading of the pale-horse passage of revelations, no, here, the four precursors of ALFAs doom are Sarcasm, Mockery, Bullying, and the death of Empathy for your fellow community members. And as much you might like to think you are cool for being so 'bad' or destructive, you're not - the people leaving, the people posting, they are not afraid of your doom - they just don't want to deal with your BS any longer. I would not suffer such hateful, mean-spirited, selfish and juvenile antics in real life, so why suffer it here?

Ciao.

[HATEFACE]

This whole thread deserves one big frowny face. I propose that the whole purpose of this thread was to troll and bully because it was posted in an inappropriate place.

See here is what I don't get Mik. . . You bully a new player in some other thread then you come here and do a complete 180. . I'm just not buying your B.S. today. You're being very very snarky(term self-edited for moderation) In all honestly I think you're the best rules lawyer in all of ALFA. Far more subversive then I could ever be in my own overt and hilarious, ridiculous, and often light hearted mannor. I maybe treading on thin ice with the moderators here but its gotta be said, that's just crazy.

I really want to apologize to mick if he took our jesting out of context. It was just an idea that started in mIRC to post different professions in place of Mick's and just run with it. There was no intention, absolutely NONE to attack or hurt Mick in any way. Maybe its a case of everyone being sensitive, maybe not. I don't really know if they were honestly hurt by it. Maybe if we could all tone down the sense of victimization we could reach a balance between free speech, moderation and excessive totalitarian censorship.

[NickD]

I have been in online communities that are significantly more abusive than ALFA. But even with that, ALFA is - by a long shot - far more negative and vile than anywhere else I have been.

Honestly, this place often reminds me of those reality programs where the children are misbehaving. Every single time the solution is time-out. At first they act up and kick and scream, but after a while, once they know where the boundaries are, they start to act in a reasonable manner.

And if that doesn't work? Cut out the cancer.

Yeah this heavyhanded nonsense is a bit late in the game, wouldn't you folks say?

No. It's never too late to do the right thing.

It has been tried before and failed because the moderators got attacked personally and the administrators did not back them up enough.

I support the idea of anonymous moderators in this community of unruly children. As long as it is done in a professional manner. Moderators should never make posts justifying their actions. Leave that to the administrators. The only thing we should ever written from the Moderator accounts should be "Text removed because [reason]" or "Several posts removed because [reason]"

Simple, precise, professional.

[fluffmonster]

So let's name name's then and have it all out, so we can be shown where these new boundaries are supposed to lie. I'll go first.

Lusipher's PM to Nalo: probably harrassment. Nasty PMs to people shouldn't be tolerated, and I think Nalo did exactly the right thing by posting it, though I would have accompanied the repost with a tirade of written abuse totally disproportionate to the offense.

The gang-bang on Mick by Magile, Helios, and (?) that's by now been erased: Harrassment, mobbing in Wynna's terminology.

Whitey calls people grossly juvenile, or yav calls people childish: not harrassment. maybe flaming, but debatably so.

So what now? Instead of ranting and raving about how bad things are and how they will be swept clean, show us what will happen. Is the new moderator regime all there is to it?

If some are to be sacrificed for the greater good, show us what part of ourselves you would cast off.

[Mikayla]

What I did in the other thread you mention is not bullying, period. One new player comes in and decides not to adopt ALFA's customary way of communicating, and then a number of people including me are having a civilized discussion of why that is or is not inappropriate. We did not mock the person, use sarcasm, post lulz pics, or any of the usual tactics you and the mob here use when someone gets your attention. What we are doing in that thread is a discussion. My posts there, and others, express a point of view - we are not making posts at another person's personal expense to get laughs from our mobbing buddies. My actions in that thread, and your actions in this thread are entirely different. Your comparison of the two is a simple, knee-jerk defense to the criticism your bullying, mobbing, behavior is now being subjected too.

[Magile]

An entire thread devoted to a single individual. The contents stating, essentially, that although their RP is fine... they're doing it wrong, and therefore should conform and act accordingly with everyone else. Their RP was not disruptive, it just looked different and took a few moments to get used to.

Are you seriously telling me that, in all honesty, you see nothing wrong with devoting an embarrassing thread to draw attention to a fault you see with one individual's style of typing? No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't hold water. You've gathered a group of people all saying, to use an internet meme, "you're doing it wrong," when it all could have been address and remained in private messages.

You can call it whatever you wish. The fact that people are inclined to agree that the thread shouldn't have existed and is potentially embarrassing to the individual says volumes, regardless of how you wish to defend yourself. That thread shouldn't have existed, especially considering the individual was on #alfa complaining that people were bashing their RP and seeming flustered about it. It's ridiculous for people to think that, just because they word it properly, they're not being inconsiderate.

Disclaimer: You is a generalized you, save for the last paragraph. The thread itself wasn't created by Mikayla, therefore I cannot blame Mik for gathering a group of people.

[Burt]

This thread needs locking.

[ALFAModerator2]

This thread has officially derailed into hate and personal attacks. Locked

//edit - I have decided against reopening. Upon reviewing contents of this thread, it has become apperant that it began its derailment into hatred very early on. My sympathies extend to Wynna for her attempts to open a serious discussion, which was met with such cruelty. We may be able to try again once the current tensions settle.