a little example of why nerdcomunities needs feminism

[Mikayla]

I have to say I am actually appalled at the level of sexism being displayed in this thread. For a long time I felt that ALFA was one of the better gaming communities in this regard, but this thread has proven otherwise.

Sexism IS a societal issue, but that does not mean sexism does not exist and that its not perpetuated by men. The most influential institutions in our society are male domnated - Government (no female presidents in the U.S., only one female PM in U.K. history, one in Germany, none in most other places, not to mention only a fraction of legislators are women), Religion (Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not allow female priests and are entirely male dominated), military (again, male dominated), and mercantilism (look at the list of CEOs of the fortune 500 - only a handful of women).

Take religion: 2000 years ago there were priestesses of various religions throughout the world, just as their were priests. Then Constantine makes Christianity the religion of Rome around 300 AD or so and we get a complete purge of the female spiritual in the western world. No other religions, no female priestesses. That was men changing society to dominate women (among other things - not their only goal of course, but certainly one of them).

Yes, there are differences between men and women - men are, on average, physically larger and stronger than women, and women carry the babies while men don't. Men get more testosterone, which amplifies aggression.

What does any of that have to do with being a priest? Or being President? Or running a business? Very little. Despite all our forward progress (and there has been a lot) we live in male dominated societies. The fact that men die earlier is a product of the society that they built and constructed,while eradicating the female presence in our cultural institutions. You made this bed, you get to lie in it.

On the upside, we are trying to change it - I, for one, don't want to be treated like a lady, I want to be treated like an equal person. Am I willing to sacrifice a few years of life expectancy for that? Hell yeah.


M.

[FoamBats4All]

Sexism IS a societal issue, but that does not mean sexism does not exist and that its not perpetuated by said society -- men and women both.

Fixed that part for you.

I had a long-winded reply here, but fuck it.

[Ronan]

Culture is an equal-opportunity asshole. For every woman who's forced to sit and home and be a house-wife, there's a man who's forced to work harder than he would if she were bringing in some income. Women were not allowed to vote, but they were also not drafted into wars. Men did not "fight" for the right to be a house-husband or get replaced by a woman in combat because that would signal weakness.

Anyway if you wanted to play a blame-game, you could blame women for being attracted to obsessive and aggressive status-seekers, which of course increases the incidence of this behavior. You could also blame men for being attracted to superficial physical traits instead of competence and intelligence, which promotes Barbies over CEOs. Great fun for arguing on the internet, but doesn't help you learn anything non-obvious.

There are also plenty of cognitive differences which help explain the occupational divides.

[Xanthea]

Jesus Christ.

[JonnyJerny]

Jesus Christ.

Good lord.

I think we should calm down and check our privileges. Can't trust a man these days.

[Ronan]

Jesus Christ.

The prophet Muhammed!

Look what you've done puny, LOOK UPON YOUR WORKS, AND DESPAIR!

[Mikayla]

Jesus has very little to do with how Christianity was ultimately implemented on a wide scale through out the Western World via the Roman Empire. The Council of Nicea and Constantin had a lot more influence than Jesus actually did. Do you think that poor, altruistic carpenter would approve of the gold-and-marble filled monstrosity that is the Vatican? I think not.

And yes, I blame men more than women for the sexism in our society because the society is largely run by men, who have (for thousands of years) used their size, strength and aggression to put women into a lesser status.

[Zelknolf]

I believe those are expressions of exasperation, not purposeful citations.

[Rumple C]

Look, I think I have to step in and mediate.

Can we all agree that we like breasts?

[Mikayla]

Zelk:

I believe those are expressions of exasperation, not purposeful citations.

Actually I agree. Nevertheless, I took advantage of what was written to make a point.

And yes Rump, I like breasts also be they my own or other girl's.

[Wild Wombat]

Let me also express my exasperation with the crap spewed in this thread.

[CloudDancing]

Women define the rules for their own life. If men can make small and great concessions in order get along with, venerate, and cherish the women in their lives, why not make them? It requires very little effort to realize that privilege has defined every aspect of your entire life. That starts from the day someone puts a baseball outfit on a newborn infant to the expectations set upon you to behave in certain culturally appropriate ways, to those moments when degrading someone for the fact they were born with compatible bits between their legs.

Naturally someone born into privilege of any type is possessive and defensive of loosing that privilege, but in recognizing that privilege has inaccurately formed ideas about other people, you can transcend the boundaries that are limiting you and come to understand yourself at the meta level, knowing why you think the way you think, thus knowing your true self stripped from the trappings of cultural expectations.

If you can make a conscious choice to do something small or something big to make D&D, gaming, cosplay, and general nerdy stuff safe and fun for women, more women will join males in those in those pursuits. A man is very very much control of his man parts and he is control of the words he says. He is in control of his hands and body. Every single day he controls himself. Thischoice to listen to what women want is just one more level of conscious control in order to create a mutually beneficial environment that enriches the lives of everyone involved.

[Khazar Stoneblood]

I'm still not sure I buy that the woman's experience was as much about sexism as anti-exhibitionism. In fact, it sounds like the majority of complaints she got were from woman gamers who were not in costume. I think it likely had much less to do with sexism and much more to do with general annoyance at the whole cosplay thing... combined with comfort at saying those things to another female.

As for the nerdy trekkies quizing her about Trek knowledge... doesn't that happen with males in costume too?

Look sexism does exist, and I'm pretty much against it across the board. I'm a firm believer in equal rights, equal responsibilities and equal pay. But equal opportunity doesn't always mean equal representation. There is some equalizing that does need to go both ways though. I think paternity benefits do need to match maternity benefits. I think the physical requirements for males to join the military in the US should be the same as females (though combat MOS's should require much tougher physical tests). I believe females should be required to register for selective service. I also think there should be a stronger penalty for companies showing sex discrimination in any way and I think males need to work harder at speaking up when they see sexism in action.

It's amazing the reaction I got at work when I took FMLA for 2 months when we adopted our child while my wife kept working. It's also amazing that many women who complained about unequal pay (rightfully) didn't see a problem with a male not qualifying for the company 4 week of paid maternity leave that females got.

I believe that no statute or policy should mention sex, race, age, sexual orientation or any other protected status (unless it's a penalty for doing something on the basis of that status). We'll see if we ever get there. But we're still talking about women making snarky comments about another woman in a goofy costume (women who aren't themselves in costume or part of the costume wearing community) and men quizing someone in geekiness in the same fashion that other geeks get tested. There are definitely culturan norms being executed here... but I still am not sure I believe sex is the main issue like the blogger did.

Sometimes people just make fun of other people who dress in stupid costumes. And at times they do it to their faces. Perhaps it's unkind, but it's not sexism.

[Heero]

One more time: 1.