VPILF

[Kest]

Because she promotes abstinence only education, and this is the fruit of that misguided policy.

But she's led by example. That her daughter lacked the moral fortitude she has isn't a failing of hers.

lol

keep 'em coming, you are starting to sound like Danubus

[Mulu]

How would you characterize his relationship with Ayers?

And following up, how would you characterize McCain's relationship with Saddam Hussein?

McCain's Transition Chief Lobbied for Saddam Hussein
The person charged with planning the McCain administration, William Timmons, lobbied for Saddam Hussein in an effort to get the international community off his back. Obama challenged McCain to talk about William Ayers to his face at the debate tonight and McCain accepted the challenge. What was Obama thinking? Maybe he will bring up Timmons and point that he (Obama) was 8 years old and living in Indonesia when Ayers was planting crude bombs but McCain knowingly chose Saddam Hussein's lobbyist for an important job in his campaign. There could be fireworks if Obama brings this up.

Hmm, maybe this debate will be interesting after all.

[ç i p h é r]

Mate, this isn't a question of "moral fortitude", this is simply that teenagers are horny.

I think you're quibbling over words. How would you draw the contrast between Bristol Palin and Gov Palin? One has abstained from premarital sex and one has not. Using the term "moral fortitude" seemed rather apropos, given her underlying moral concerns with premarital sex. To me, it's more of a practical matter, but we're not talking about me.

Equipping them with the proper education and knowledge empowers them to explore their sexuality in a fashion that is not dangerous to them.

Is that a fancier way of saying "have sex safely"?

I don't see any conflicts between encouraging abstinence (until they are in a responsible relationship) and educating kids about what's going on. In my day, they called this health class. Knowledge about their own biology, about the risks associated with casual sex, about protection...it doesn't deviate from the message that abstinence is the only sure way to protect yourself against unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases. So there's no reason to oppose it, IMO.

However, I do think that actually equipping kids with condemns would come across as implicit endorsement of casual sex (kids are very quick to identify inconsistencies between what you say and do) and would totally undermine any desire a parent might have for their kids to have sex responsibly. I think parents can make that decision for their own kids though.

[ç i p h é r]

And following up, how would you characterize McCain's relationship with Saddam Hussein?

Non-existent.

McCain's Transition Chief Lobbied for Saddam Hussein
The person charged with planning the McCain administration, William Timmons, lobbied for Saddam Hussein in an effort to get the international community off his back. Obama challenged McCain to talk about William Ayers to his face at the debate tonight and McCain accepted the challenge. What was Obama thinking? Maybe he will bring up Timmons and point that he (Obama) was 8 years old and living in Indonesia when Ayers was planting crude bombs but McCain knowingly chose Saddam Hussein's lobbyist for an important job in his campaign. There could be fireworks if Obama brings this up.

Hmm, maybe this debate will be interesting after all.[/quote]
Sounds good. Put everything on the table and let the people be the judge.

[Mulu]

Cipher, you do realize that "abstinence only" sex ed means *not* educating kids about condoms and the pill and all the rest, right? It's more about ignorance than education, and it's been proven time and again to not work.

"Gee, every time I stick a knife in the toaster I get a shock. Well, it won't happen this time...."

[ç i p h é r]

They are a right wing propaganda machine. Period. That they got printed in the pages of the WSJ opinion section in no way gives them renewed credibility. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth get printed there too. I'm not going to waste my time debunking every piece of retarded propaganda out there.

But yet you have no similar compunction about posting nonsense on Sarah Palin. It's a good argument if you were credible enough to make it.

When the media fails to fulfill its obligation to vet presidential candidates honestly and fairly, it leaves behind a vacuum. I've not seen any analysis of the CAC's activities and Obama's role in it by the media. Why should we care? Guess who sets education policy for the next 4 years?

p.s. Yes I'm aware of what "abstinence only" education means. The reason I went down this road is because I don't get why there is such a divide on the issue when the middle of the road seems like it would serve everyone well. That's in part a criticism of Gov Palin's view.

[Mulu]

But yet you have no similar compunction about posting nonsense on Sarah Palin. It's a good argument if you were credible enough to make it.

The only "nonsense" I posted about Palin was the teenage daughter being the real mom rumor, and I can't even remember now how much of that was me and how much was other people. You, on the other hand, seem to *almost exclusively* post nonsense from non-credible sources. You have become a right wing propaganda regurgitation machine. Call it political bulimia, you binge and purge malicious rhetoric.

The fact that the media is ignoring the CAC story tells me it's a non-story. Given all the air time they gave to Wright, Ayers and other anti-Obama stories, it's not like they are trying to protect him, despite the right wing's disingenuous claim to the contrary. If anyone has gotten a free pass this campaign cycle, it's McCain. Of course, he is a very well known person, so there's not much dirt left to fling other than his current actions. In contrast, Palin has so many flaws to expose you could make a living at it. Picking her was *such* a mistake. She has tainted the ticket.

[MorbidKate]

But she's led by example. That her daughter lacked the moral fortitude she has isn't a failing of hers. Unless there's an alternative to abstinence that offers 100% protection from pregnancy, the message at least is correct. I don't know where the debate breaks down between liberals and conservatives on this issue because I think we can encourage abstinence and educate our kids about what's going on down there at the same time. Just learning about STDs can be a powerful deterrent to casual sex.

Led by example eh? Funny how the opinion shifts depending on the agenda. Here's classic Bill O'Reilly on teen preggers:

Jamie Lynn Spears

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317577,00.html

Pinheads & Patriots:

"On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.

Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves."

---

And here's what Bill had to say about Bristol Palin:

"Millions of families are dealing with teen pregnancy, and as long as society doesn't have to support the mother, father or baby, it is a personal matter. Some Americans will judge Governor Palin and her family, and she will have a hard time running for vice president if there is much more chaos. For the sake of her and her family, we hope things calm down. This country needs a vibrant policy debate, not a soap opera."

Oh yeah, bash the parents of one child, defend the parents of another saying it's a private matter. LOL!

Kate

[ç i p h é r]

Bill O gets the pin head award for that. He doesn't speak for the world, you know.

[MorbidKate]

Bill O gets the pin head award for that. He doesn't speak for the world, you know.

Yes, well sadly a huge number of the Republican base have a poster of Bill over their bed

Kate

[ç i p h é r]

So you've been in the bedroom of that many Republicans have you? That's naughty.

[Veilan]

Finnally a good reason to vote republican .

[MorbidKate]

I'm kinky like that

[Vendrin]

[Kest]

http://www.palinaspresident.us/