Oh Flowers of Stoland

[orangetree]

self-determination really is the worst isn't it

Sarcasm. Can you offer anything more substantial?

Well, I could suggest you get your head out of the 19th century?

The union is over 300 years old. It's actually 18th century.

[kid]

A country for every man!

Free me!

[kid]

Also, there seems to be an interesting trend between the EU that unifies Europe and the Scots desire to break from the UK, and the same with Catalonia in Spain. If I was some sociology geek i'd totally write some article about it.

Anyways, really, those are not real problems. So either Scotland vote yes, or it votes no... Big deal.
Try living in the middle east.

[Brokenbone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1tJJO_pVvQ

From Trainspotting, "It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference!"

Colonized by wankers. Us too Renton.

[Rumple C]

Colonized by wankers. Us too Renton.

+1. Oh the shame.

Free New Zealand.

[Hialmar]

The problem with England is that it colonized about the half of the whole planet.

It's not very astonishing, then, that about the half of the planet is for Scotland.

And of course the other half of the planet was colonized by the French, Spain or Portugal and they don't much like colonial countries either.

[orangetree]

The problem with England is that it colonized about the half of the whole planet.

It's not very astonishing, then, that about the half of the planet is for Scotland.

And of course the other half of the planet was colonized by the French, Spain or Portugal and they don't much like colonial countries either.

Try 'the whole planet'. At one point, the sun never set on the British Empire. It's a well known phrase. Scotland was part of that too and ejoyed the benefits while they were there.

I will have to ask now, why is it a 'problem' now? The UK enjoys good relations with many of the countries it once colonised. It isn't a case of 'hate you forever', things have largely moved on. We have helped countries and empowered them to forge their own destinies giving a great deal of aid. Sometimes it went wrong, but a lot of the time it went right too.

Why drag 19th century colonialism up as a reason to break up the UK in the 21st century?

[orangetree]

... are you guys all really serious about this? You really want to see the UK break apart? Do you know what you are 'cheering' here with glee?

The country I have known as a becon of freedom and tolerence? Acceptance, the rule of Law, and is the mother of all parliments?

I have to say, the hate-speach from 'nationalist views' is un-comfortable. You guys are all looking so happy at the breakup like it's the best thing ever. Do you really hate -my- country that much? Why? I'm sorry but I really can't believe some of the things I am reading here. You paint a picture of so much fiction with youtube links and movies like braveheart and the worst thing is, people believe it 'because it's on the internet'. People believe we have oppressed the scots, or are a nation of warmongers, or held back the world with colonialsm... and none of this is true. There is no 'cry for freedom' under the heel of english boots, the union tried to preserve the Kingdom of Scotland as much as the Kingdom of England as we became one United Kingdom.

Please would you just... stop with the anti-english sentiment. You have the right to such hatred but... come on. We're getting on our knees to keep the scotts happy, what more is wanted? All we can do is beg and plead for them not to do it because even if it affects us, we have no say.

One thing about me. I'll admit I'm a coward. I can never be a real hero or stand up for myself let alone others. But one thing I do stand up for is my country, because I have never liked bullies... and I see them even here when they pour such scorn and hate to us.

If scotland joins in that hate, I will wave them good bye.

Also...to be honest, I don't think I want to play on a server with so much 'anti-english' sentiment. I will probably be questioning my time on alfa now, I just don't think I can continue.

[Brokenbone]

I figure it's all just national self determination type stuff. If people want to fragment into smaller and smaller national units and govern selves, it's a big fat who cares? Whether really large units like a Scotland, smaller like a Quebec (who has flirted with this many times), or real small like thousands of tribal type first nations groups throughout not just North America, but the world. People want to govern themselves sometimes, maybe it's not always such a hot idea but hey, this is a basic human rights issue to change your mind now and again, see if you'd like to try a new way to govern your particular nation-group. Definitely entitled to fail and pick bad routes too. Or say "holy crap, now is the time, did you notice this oil deposit on my tribe's lands? Time to press hard, got the resources to do so!"

[Zelknolf]

People are advocating for Scottish self direction because they are a distinct people with a distinct culture who want to stand on their own. Whether or not England is on its knees isn't really the point-- they want to have their own sovereignty.

England's track record isn't brought up because everyone hates the English (or I don't think so-- maybe someone here was alive in India or Africa in the early 20th century, in which case they probably do), it's more that it's the obvious response to someone arguing that Scotland not have sovereignty. There's a lot of hard evidence that empires became a really bad idea in the modern era. It's not because of England, specifically; it's because of every country who had an empire (so, y'know, the homelands of most of the people on this forum-- we Yankees get the benefit of having first been part of an empire and then being an empire, even-- and we can go back to the middle ages to hate on the Swedes. Stupid sexy Swedes).

[Ronan]

I know people from India and Hong Kong who are quite fond of what England did to their countries. Of course they're looking at this without the large outgroup biases their ancestors had, who probably did not want to be ruled over by pale-skinned, round-eyed tea-drinkers who didn't even worship their ancestors / cows / whatevers. I'm not big on American history, but I'm not so sure what we gained from independence was worth the war. Maybe its a good thing the resources of America were kept out of the hands of the then-imperialistic Brits? Guess we'll never know.

Succession because in/out-group biases just sounds dumb, though. Yes most people prefer tyrants they identify with to those they don't, but there's little rational about such a preference. Of course most of politics is exploiting people's biases, so I'm not even sure why I'm typing this. Must be bored.

Anyway, why would anyone invade Scotland?

[Galadorn]

Haggis?

[Rumple C]

No one would dare invade while Scotland is under the protection of Nessie.

[Twin Axes]

and we can go back to the middle ages to hate on the Swedes

Hey now! We held on to Finland until 1809!

[Zelknolf]

and we can go back to the middle ages to hate on the Swedes

Hey now! We held on to Finland until 1809!

Stupid sexy Swedes.