ALFAModerator5 wrote:Apologies for trying to bring something more then just plain anonymity and humor to the job, but I suppose it doesn't fit with the program in place.
Well, infairness it was peoples different idea of what was funny and what was just offensive that landed us with moderators in the first place.
ALFAModerator5 wrote:Sterile moderation it is.
Make it sterile, informative moderating, and you'll be on to a winner.
Last edited by Mayhem on Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*** ANON: has joined #channel
ANON: Mod you have to be one of the dumbest f**ks ive ever met
MOD: hows that ?
ANON: read what I said
ANON: You feel you can ban someone on a whim
MOD: i can, watch this
ANON: its so stupid how much power you think you have
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." -- Richard Dawkins
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." -- Richard Dawkins
I think it quite telling that even Mick, who rarely posts and came in especially to post a very thoughtful and careful comment in the bullying thread, fell foul of the moderators and had to have part of his speech excised.
It shows how easy it is to post something that the mods will object to, even with the best intentions.
*** ANON: has joined #channel
ANON: Mod you have to be one of the dumbest f**ks ive ever met
MOD: hows that ?
ANON: read what I said
ANON: You feel you can ban someone on a whim
MOD: i can, watch this
ANON: its so stupid how much power you think you have
Mayhem wrote:It shows how easy it is to post something that the mods will object to, even with the best intentions.
Furthering the argument that even if the moderation guidelines aren't complete, they should still be posted, to give people the chance to self moderate.
It is ludicrous to ask people to follow a certain standard when only the enforcers know exactly what the standard is.
Mayhem wrote:It shows how easy it is to post something that the mods will object to, even with the best intentions.
Swift wrote:Furthering the argument that even if the moderation guidelines aren't complete, they should still be posted, to give people the chance to self moderate.
It does not matter how well-thought a post is, beginning a post with "[group] are cancers to be cut out" is a bit shady, regardless of how good or bad those people are percieved to be by the posters. The fact that a post began on that and escalated from there seems quite severe, and our policy about that is posted in the first post of the thread announcing our new plan for enforcing our forum policies.
If clarity is needed, posts that are in the format of "[group or person] is [unpleasant adjective]" is likely to get moderated. Hell, if I'm the one to do it, you're liable to get a PM pointing out the irony of saying horrible things about people for saying horrible things. It doesn't matter if the moderators agree with the sentiment or not; our job is to try to keep that sort of talk off of the forums. Apologies if that was unclear.
(same) Thick skinned Troll pushes thin skinned player =
ALFA - (1)player
(same)Thick skinned Troll makes fun of thin skinned NWN builder =
ALFA - (1)builder
No matter how many times you do the equation ... it subtracts from ALFA.
Show us how being "tough", "blunt" or "thick skinned" adds people to ALFA and you can probably change our minds...
ALFA + Moderation =
ALFA - Trolls unable to play nice [edit: only after they have been given 3 strikes]
Maybe it is a script ninja troll that cannot adjust ... if the troll comes with the potential to run off a thin skinned potential member or even an old veteran ... the troll is not worth it anymore.
You (plural form) were right, there used to be lots of flaming and plenty of numbers...
You (plural form) were right, that moderation has never "succeeded"
With those statements how can you (plural form) say that moderation will cause people to leave when it has never worked before, something else has caused people to leave and it can't be moderation because that has never worked before.
/end rant
[edit] oh not quite, like Mik said ... the final sum is we are left with nothing but Trolls.
and ... "insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again all the while expecting different results."
Trying to tell people they need to get thicker skin, has not worked, why not try something else? If it is so easy to get tough, can it be so hard to be respectful ?
Moderation has also not worked, which moves us to the banning of folks that cannot conform. [edit: for clarity, if moderation does not work ... through the 3 strike process it will bring us to the decision of "to ban or not to ban."]
Whether or not Admin / Moderator's will "pull the trigger" is the ultimate question.
We can debate all we want, it comes down to the decisions of those folks.
/end rant ... second attempt.
self moderated hopefully sufficiently ?
Last edited by Nalo Jade on Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The reasonable man adapts to fit the world. The unreasonable man adapts the world to suit him. Therefore all progress is achieved by the unreasonable." - unknown
removed self from forums, contact via E-mail. Adios.
Vendrin, I understand a lack of a wish to be defended, and the percieved loss of options in posting. However, I if I would call an attack unacceptable when used against the "thin skinned" members, I have to call it unacceptable when used against the "thick skinned" members, else I fail at being impartial. I do admit that much of the fine tuning is still on the table, but I do not believe a "do not moderate attacks that you think will not offend their targets" clause would make it to the final draft. There is already much talk of corruption and favoritism about, which I hope to eventually counter by trying to respond to comments the same way regardless of positions, factions, or contributions. Adding that level of subjectivity to a topic that is already subjective, despite efforts to handle it objectively, would undermine any inklings of that effort, and make people even more unhappy.
Nalo, I won't go into details about your whole post. It's a lot of opinion that I can't really register my own opinion on. The comment about banning I think needs clarification. Failing to conform isn't grounds for punishment; attacking and insulting other members is grounds for being moderated -- note the term. We aren't seeking retribution; we're altering consequences of actions in hopes of causing changes in behavior. Refusing to alter one's choices in communication away from attacks and insults is grounds for a strike, should three of the moderators think it has escalated to the point where editing posts and sending PMs won't make a difference; refusing to alter those same choices two more times is what ends in a ban. You'll notice there is a wide buffer between "behaivor we wish to stop" and "sending a member packing." I believe that philosophical distinction is important.
Vendrin ... completely random pic didn't show for me.
Honestly I find your "art" of humor using pictures to convey a message both funny and intelligent.
Most of the time.
Mod2
I tried to not "attack" any faction, it is very much an opinion or "theory" trying to explain the choices we are being given...
both sides.
However I think it is unrealistic to assume that a thin skinned person is going to learn or become thick skinned because ALFA teaches them how to...
it seems more reasonable that the intelligent "thick skinned" persons exercise some restraint.
I understand that an immediate ban is not the course of action being discussed...
I was simply stating that it may ultimately be the choice that must be made, that will be the climax of this event.
I am sure some people will change their behavior, however some people may be too entrenched...and the only recourse will be to Ban.
I don't want to see anyone leave,
I don't want to see the humor leave,
I just want to see some restraint.
"The reasonable man adapts to fit the world. The unreasonable man adapts the world to suit him. Therefore all progress is achieved by the unreasonable." - unknown
removed self from forums, contact via E-mail. Adios.
Nalo Jade wrote:However I think it is unrealistic to assume that a thin skinned person is going to learn or become thick skinned because ALFA teaches them how to...
Were you around back when NWN1 was still riding high and ALFA had just gone through the quake? The forums, both private and public were more often than not full of flame wars, attacks etc. You either grew thick skin damn quick, bailed from the forums or bailed completely from ALFA. Strangely enough, those were the days where ALFA had its highest number of players, servers and DMs and also when the forums were their busiest.
I do find it cute that so many people blame the trolls and 'acidic' atmosphere of the forums as a major reason why the number of ALFA members has dropped so much, and not the fact that a) the game is old and b) new PWs keep opening, while the player base for NWN continues to dwindle.
I don't want to see anyone leave,
I don't want to see the humor leave,
I just want to see some restraint.
Restraint from both sides, and ill actually agree with you. Even paazan believes that the moderation we have seen over the last couple of days has been over zealous.
