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Mulu
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Post by Mulu »

More snippets from that same article:
Frank Rich writes in his New York Times opinion column (subscription required) that the relevant anniversary this week is not so much 9/11 but "Sept. 8, 2002. What happened on that Sunday five years ago is the Rosetta Stone for the administration's latest scam.

"That was the morning when the Bush White House officially rolled out its fraudulent case for the war. The four horsemen of the apocalypse -- Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell and Rice -- were dispatched en masse to the Washington talk shows, where they eagerly pointed to a front-page New York Times article amplifying subsequently debunked administration claims that Saddam had sought to buy aluminum tubes meant for nuclear weapons. 'We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud,' said Condoleezza Rice on CNN, introducing a sales pitch concocted by a White House speechwriter.

"What followed was an epic propaganda onslaught of distorted intelligence, fake news, credulous and erroneous reporting by bona fide journalists, presidential playacting and Congressional fecklessness."

The Philadelphia Daily News editorial board writes that it is "clear that President Bush has no intention of bringing troops home from Iraq while he's president.

"In fact, it's worse: he wants to make sure the next president can't either. . .

"In a new book by Robert Draper, the president told the author that when it comes to Iraq, 'I'm playing for October-November.' . . .

"Elsewhere in this new book, the president muses about 'replenishing the ol' coffers' by charging huge fees for speaking engagements when he's out of office, and getting 'bored' and then hopping in his truck and going back to the ranch.

"What a nice luxury that will be, to feel no guilty conscience for making it more difficult, not easier, for the next president to safely bring our troops home. How lovely it will be to get $75,000 a pop to give a speech to a corporation, while the troops you sent into war toil in 130-degree heat, and you made sure they'd stay there long after you left office.

"To the president, who curiously used the word 'playing' to describe his war strategy, this is indeed a game, and he's looking for his checkmate. To him, there's no real lives involved, and if progress reports don't look good, either change the benchmarks or use it as an excuse to stay longer - but never, ever, change the course."

"The essence of Greek tragedy is that protagonists move inexorably to a climax the audience can anticipate before the characters discover their fate. As the curtain rises for Washington's battle over Iraq, Congressional leaders must reject the role President Bush has scripted for them in his Iraq tragedy. Otherwise, in January 2009, a newly-elected president will find himself or herself waist deep in a quagmire that will dominate their one term presidency.

"No one should have any doubt about President Bush's overriding operational objective. It is to hand over this war to his successor. In his own words: 'I will not withdraw even if Laura and Barney [his dog] are the only ones supporting me.' To this end he will do and say whatever is necessary."
Leila Fadel writes for McClatchy Newspapers: "When President Bush announced in January what the White House called a "New Way Forward" in Iraq, he said that Iraqi and American troops would improve security while the Iraqi government improved services. Responsibility for security in most of Iraq would be turned over to Iraqi security forces by November.

"With better security would come the breathing room needed for political reconciliation, Bush said.

"With less than a week to go before the White House delivers a congressionally mandated report on that plan, none of this has happened."
Last edited by Mulu on Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mulu
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Post by Mulu »

The Iraqis themselves seem to agree:
"More Iraqis say security in their local area has gotten worse in the last six months than say it's gotten better, 31 percent to 24 percent, with the rest reporting no change. Far more, six in 10, say security in the country overall has worsened since the surge began, while just one in 10 sees improvement. . . .

"More than six in 10 now call the U.S.-led invasion of their country wrong, up from 52 percent last winter. Fifty-seven percent call violence against U.S. forces acceptable, up six points. And despite the uncertainties of what might follow, 47 percent now favor the immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq -- a 12-point rise. . . .

Take the Kurds out of the equation and the numbers are even more dire: "Seventy-nine percent of Iraqis oppose the presence of coalition forces in the country, essentially unchanged from last winter -- including more than eight in 10 Shiites and nearly all Sunni Arabs.
And lest anyone forget, General Petraeus claimed the war was being won back in 2004.
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Mulu
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Post by Mulu »

Danubus wrote:You wont give Bush any credit for the economy
And not that you're actually worth commenting on, but the economy is currently heading towards a potential recession.
WASHINGTON - Strained by an ailing housing market and credit woes, the economy in 2007 is expected to log its worst growth in five years and should be somewhat sluggish next year.

The No. 1 risk, though, is that the economy will lose its footing altogether and fall into a recession, forecasters say
I absolutely give Bush credit for a slow economy and staggering debt. :P
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Zakharra
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Post by Zakharra »

Mulu wrote:
Danubus wrote:You wont give Bush any credit for the economy
And not that you're actually worth commenting on, but the economy is currently heading towards a potential recession.
WASHINGTON - Strained by an ailing housing market and credit woes, the economy in 2007 is expected to log its worst growth in five years and should be somewhat sluggish next year.

The No. 1 risk, though, is that the economy will lose its footing altogether and fall into a recession, forecasters say
I absolutely give Bush credit for a slow economy and staggering debt. :P
He's also, thru the tax cuts, given 6+ years of incrediable economic growth. After 9-11 and the 'Worst economy in the last 50 years' I believe was the phrase when he took office. When it was at the most a mild recession.

http://www.senate.gov/~bennett/press/re ... ?id=226048&
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Post by sgould72 »

He's also, thru the tax cuts, given 6+ years of incrediable economic growth.
Which country have you been living in the past 6 years?
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Post by Lusipher »

Danubus wrote:
You wont give Bush any credit for the economy

And not that you're actually worth commenting on, but the economy is currently heading towards a potential recession.
Quote:

WASHINGTON - Strained by an ailing housing market and credit woes, the economy in 2007 is expected to log its worst growth in five years and should be somewhat sluggish next year.

The No. 1 risk, though, is that the economy will lose its footing altogether and fall into a recession, forecasters say

I absolutely give Bush credit for a slow economy and staggering debt.

Thats why the DOW just went over an all time high just a few weeks ago. I agree housing is a mess right now, though. It wont get any better as most people are getting hosed on those cheap mortgages they took out and cant seem to pay on.

Credit card debit is an all time high, but people continue to borrow. Folks just cant seem to understand that using credit cards will just get you into trouble.
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Post by Lusipher »

Tater Lover said:
He's also, thru the tax cuts, given 6+ years of incrediable economic growth.


Which country have you been living in the past 6 years?

The US. Look at the numbers. We have had tons of economic growth. Just because you havent seen any doesnt mean the economy isnt growing and folks arent making money.
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Zakharra
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Post by Zakharra »

sgould72 wrote:
He's also, thru the tax cuts, given 6+ years of incrediable economic growth.
Which country have you been living in the past 6 years?
The GDP has grown, as had the amount of money the GAO has taken in has also grown as more people spend the money they were allowed to keep. The stock market hit an all time high a few weeks ago, which is amazing since it was down near 8-7K soon after 9-11. Despite what Democrate Party and the media have been trying to say, it has been a good economy, not a bad one. Not everyone does well in good economies.
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Mulu
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Post by Mulu »

Zakharra wrote:He's also, thru the tax cuts, given 6+ years of incrediable economic growth.
Image

By most economic indicators, we have done poorly under Bush, with the biggest one being the increasing poverty of children. To the extent we have experienced growth, it's largely due borrowing and failing to provided necessary services like infrastructural repair, and that bill *will* come due. The Dow Jones really isn't much of an economic indicator, as rising investment value typically only benefits the already wealthy, and they tend to keep their money. But this is a different topic.

Colin Powell had some interseting things to say in his recent interview:
The latest issue of GQ also includes an interview with Colin Powell. His assessment of the occupation isn't quite as rosy. In fact, he describes the way it was handled as "the big mistake."

"Don had written a list of the worst things that could happen, but we didn’t do the contingency planning on what we would do about it. So we watched those buildings get burned down, and nobody told the divisions, “Hey, go in there and declare martial law and whack a few people and it will stop," Powell says.

"Then the insurgency started, and we didn’t acknowledge it. They said it wasn’t an insurgency. They looked up the definition. They said it was a few dead-enders! And so we didn’t respond in a way that might have stopped it. And then the civil war started at the beginning of last year. I call it a civil war, but some say no, it’s not a civil war, it’s a war against civilians. In fact, we have total civil disorder," he says.

/

"[A]re there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system?" Powell asked. "No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves. So what is the greatest threat we are facing?

"It should be about how we create institutions that keep the world moving down a path of wealth creation," Powell told the magazine, "of increasing respect for human rights, creating democratic institutions and increasing the efficiency and power of market economies."

Powell said Americans are "taking too much counsel of our fears" and that while "there is a threat" from terrorists, the United States should focus on inviting and integrating foreigners who can contribute to American society.

"Let's show the world a face of openness and what a democratic system can do," he said. "The only thing that can really destroy us is us. We shouldn't do it ourselves, and we shouldn't use fear for political purposes -- scaring people to death so they will vote for you, or scaring people to death so that we create a terror-industrial complex."
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Mulu
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Post by Mulu »

Image

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Post by sgould72 »

Actually, the economy has done well for corporations over the past few years. Individuals have not seen much of it. Trickle down doesn't work. Never did.

In fairness having said that, and I am sure I am restating a point someone else has already made, Presidents always get far too much credit/blame for the economy. While their impact is not zero, it is not as great as people like to make out.
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Mulu
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Post by Mulu »

True, though excessive tax cuts to the rich and rampant deficit spending will hurt middle class and lower class america in the long run, and that was the President's doing.

Okay, more cartoons.

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Post by Lusipher »

Actually, the economy has done well for corporations over the past few years. Individuals have not seen much of it. Trickle down doesn't work. Never did.
Bullshit. My 401k says otherwise. L2DoStocks.
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Post by Rotku »

I'm pretty sure most of the developed world has been growing pretty steadily over the past 6 or so years. I know, at least, Australia and New Zealand have been - and in the latter case (not sure about Aussie) it certainly has very little to do with the government.
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Post by fluffmonster »

The economy is not synonymous with the stock market. It is entirely possible for the stock market to do well, yet most people end up worse off. Most people do not have substantial holdings of stock, and I would be curious to see how many have a pension or retirement account of any sort.

The economy has managed to avoid a recession since 2000-2001, and so in that sense could be said to be "doing well", but inequality has clearly gotten more extreme. Inequality wouldn't necessarily bother me so much, but when executives are getting 400 times the median wage and at the same time getting tax cuts, I call bullshit.
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