Solar variation ruled out in global warming

[Rotku]

[Mulu]

Mulu, again, for the solar pannels, not REALISTIC. I said before that I live in minnesota.

I only suggested them for the sun belt.



Clearly Minnesota is outside that region. With the sun belt effectively off the national grid, you Minnesotans could live relatively normally, though it still means driving a vehicle that conserves gas and getting rid of your two stroke junk. That's hardly a tremendous sacrifice.

Even outside the sunbelt, solar panels would minimize the impact of air conditioners during the summer, which all by itself would be worth it if subsidized.

[Mulu]

It never ceases to amaze me that you have to actually *argue* with conservatives to get them to even consider reducing their consumption, even after all of the information we have on global warming *and* the national security issues of being dependant on foreign oil. Apparently it isn't just religion that causes brain damage.

[Grand Fromage]

I don't understand it. Let's say you either don't believe anything about environmental damage or don't care. Fine. Doesn't it still make sense to cut down oil usage to what we can get from our own sources plus friendly nations, like Canada and Norway and such, so we can afford to pull out of the Middle East entirely and let them kill each other without us wasting resources and lives? And doesn't it save you a nice load of money to get a more fuel efficient car, and insulate your house a bit and toss up a solar panel to lower your utility bills?

[Jeppan]

Conservative seem to mean id*ot.

- So lets all try and do out part to reduce the damage dealt to enviroment! (Mulu)
- Fuck no! The government have no right to opress me! (Nekulor)
- Hell no, you are not carbon neutral yourself, thus I need not do anything! (Helios)
- No, we do not know if we are doing any damage to the enviroment (Zak)

I think the idea on spending more money on education might be a good idea (from the other thread) as conservative also seem to mean misinformed.

Keep up the fight Mulu, GF and others.

[Charlie]

Mulu, don't take this the wrong way, but Jo Dirt, meaning people who live under the twenty-three grand a year mark, meaning most people, do not have the startup money for solar. Most of us live on the edge and paycheck to paycheck. What savings we can glom onto goes towards offspring or, in my case, addictions.

What needs to be done is to reign in people who burn tires for electricity, and to intoroduce legeslature making a usable solar systems on newly built homes, and the establishment of solar on new construction. You want a new home? The builder needs to have panels, that meet reasonable quality standards.

I agree in not putting in solar panels onto areas where you get 3 feet of snow on your roof. That's just silly. Well not silly, stupid.

Unforunately, corporations pretty much have a chokehold on the US government, and a few hands need to be lopped off. The transition will be paintful.

[HATEFACE]

It never ceases to amaze me that you have to actually *argue* with conservatives to get them to even consider reducing their consumption, even after all of the information we have on global warming *and* the national security issues of being dependant on foreign oil. Apparently it isn't just religion that causes brain damage.

I guess you'll remain amazed, and us, "conservatives" will continue to be skeptical of global warming despite all the studies and the national security issues on being dependant on foreign oil etc, etc. Maybe after realize you can't change the stubbern mind you'll eventually shut the fuck up about it. But you're steeped in dogma that the world is coming to an end because of us, evil "conservatives" are not willing to throw away modern conviences like leaf blowers and lawn mowers. Even when us, "conservatives" are fully willing to listen to your arguements you still bitch and complain if someone even offers an alternative method like nuclear power. Now that you presented your case on the solar panels and marked out, what looks like less then half, of the region for me to see. I don't give a flying f**keroo about solar panels.

Now, don't get me wrong there fundamentalist Mulu. I'm not trying to bring doom and gloom upon this world like Al gore says I am. I'm trying to find a reasonable way that still allows me to lead a normal life, not a "relatively normal" life.

Since this is still on the subject of saving the planet. I want to know what ever will we do about toilet paper? I suggest we go back to using our hands. It wasn't fancy but it got the job done. Very conservative and very effective. Or perhaps a washable rag. You might want to keep it in a seperate wash after a while. But what about all that water being wasted? Low flow toilets are just lessening the problem not solving it completely. What we need is a giant turbine vaccum to suck the waste out of the toilet with extreame force and eject it into space. It would be a scientific accomplishment for the ages!! A space shit elevator if you will. . .

Even if we rely upon all those solar panels, I will still use my two stroke junk , don't care if the western seaboard drowns to death, not giving up my two stroke junk. Call it a compromise.

[HATEFACE]

I don't understand it. Let's say you either don't believe anything about environmental damage or don't care. Fine. Doesn't it still make sense to cut down oil usage to what we can get from our own sources plus friendly nations, like Canada and Norway and such, so we can afford to pull out of the Middle East entirely and let them kill each other without us wasting resources and lives? And doesn't it save you a nice load of money to get a more fuel efficient car, and insulate your house a bit and toss up a solar panel to lower your utility bills?

All that money will just fly out of our pockets into democrat taxes to fund masterbation habbits of old men.

[HATEFACE]

Conservative seem to mean id*ot.

- So lets all try and do out part to reduce the damage dealt to enviroment! (Mulu)
- f*sk no! The government have no right to opress me! (Nekulor)
- Hell no, you are not carbon neutral yourself, thus I need not do anything! (Helios)
- No, we do not know if we are doing any damage to the enviroment (Zak)

I think the idea on spending more money on education might be a good idea (from the other thread) as conservative also seem to mean misinformed.

Keep up the fight Mulu, GF and others.

You fail at flaming. You need to throw harsher insults at conservatives. We're so politically incorrect ourselves remember.

Hilarious that idiot was censored btw. Double plus lulz for that.
Oh wait, it wasn't censored by the chat! It was censored by you! TRIPLE LULZ!!! GODLIKE!!!

Small edit: I offered Nuclear energy from the begining, yet I was insulted and GF is given a yay. I guess that's democrats way of being fair and balanced like faux news. I have my doubts about electric cars because of the amount of electricity that we need to be produced in order to fuel the amount of cars in this country. Wind power, water power and algaculture are also good and obvious aids in combating this world wide doomsday dilemma. Also from what Mulu suggested it seems like I DONT have to do anything and that everyone in the sunny belt can go and put stuff on their houses. Well, better get to it. . . I want my energy damnit! Don't worry, I promse to do my part by picking up trash and throwing it away. I also pledge become a awesome carbon nuetral guy just like Mulu so I can feel bloody awesome about myself and taunt the shit out of people for seeing things differently. It's a low selfesteem issue, or maybe I'm jealous, or I - Well, whatever it is it's still a personal problem and I should work on it.

[Charlie]

Mulu, don't take this the wrong way, but Jo Dirt, meaning people who live under the twenty-three grand a year mark, meaning most people, do not have the startup money for solar. Most of us live on the edge and paycheck to paycheck. What savings we can glom onto goes towards offspring or, in my case, addictions.

I've worked with building developers, real estate people, as well as energy industry analysts and even worked as an Admin Assist with a few people in the right places. The developers were in California, and the oil-slicks-on-wheels were in Houston and New York. I also have a contact in with an insurance agency in Houston who describes to me on a weekly basis the sort high-jinks energy companies are up to. I also found out through them that the Superdome in New Orleans was broken into, and people migrated in. The city government had nothing to do with it. The kind of settlements they negotiate with oil people, btw, are usually over medical difficulties, some country sues the owner of a pipleline and they negotiate, etc.

What needs to be done is to reign in people who burn tires for electricity, and to introduce legislature making it mandatory for builders to have non-optional, and usable, solar systems on newly built homes. Any and all areas within specific regions that meet longstanding criteria would need to have all new development include a minimum solar output per square foot of property for all new construction. New homes would be required to have a minimum solar output, as well as businesses, including the cheap-shit strip-malls.

I agree in not putting in solar panels onto areas where you get 3 feet of snow on your roof. That's just silly. Well not silly, stupid.

Unfortunately, corporations who's board members have an incurable gold fever pretty much have a chokehold on the US government. Land developers are also paving over every square inch of landscape in order to make a buck, or a few million. People who make money, vast sums of it, don't really care if they're doing something wrong. They want to live in comfort, and it is their legal right to do so. To them it's not an issue of morality, nor do they care. People who complain are merely fools to be brushed aside.

In the end, it's going to be painful. The legislature in the United States is controlled by a collective monarchy governed by and ego with a lunatic self-interest. The only way to solve the problem is public humiliation, and severe social pressure that makes sense.

Propaganda can be fought. To win the hearts and minds of every individual, even the SUVDrivin/Don'tGiveAShit conservatives, and to rein in the save-the-lobster psychopaths, counter-propaganda must be compelling and relevant, and not appear as moronic liberal tripe. It's not about an ethical choice, but what's the socially acceptable modus, and in the individual's immediate self-interest. The pursuit of an ecological balance is worthwhile, but it is also a modern game of crowns; politics and assassination, both of reputations and the more literal translation, or avoiding the later.

When people like Al Gore, a rat at the well intentioned throat, are cast aside, and the notion of "I have the right to f#%k you all" is challenged as wrong and cast down, being recognized for what it is, then the right way, the best way, the way of balance can move forward. Until then, and if this thing, this growing gray scab isn't treated, everything will be paved over. There will be nothing left. Los Angeles from coast to coast, every animal in a zoo, can't go outside without your mask or filter, if you can afford it.

I gravely worry it's going to take a deep and ghastly wound from which we will never truly recover, when people take a ten minute walk only to choke on public air (it's not canned with a Pepsi label), or find their skin blistering under the UVs, or a wealthy man's child dies riddled with lumps and disease, will something be done. Only then will this era where man's spirit and flesh is slowly consumed by a growing cancer be seen for what it is. Only when tears begin to flow as rivers, to my dread, is when the scabs are washed away, and the scars take root to intone a bitter lesson for all time.

[HATEFACE]

Mulu, don't take this the wrong way, but Jo Dirt, meaning people who live under the twenty-three grand a year mark, meaning most people, do not have the startup money for solar. Most of us live on the edge and paycheck to paycheck. What savings we can glom onto goes towards offspring or, in my case, addictions.

What needs to be done is to reign in people who burn tires for electricity, and to introduce legislature making it manditory for builders to have non optional, and usable, solar systems on newly built homes. Any and all areas within specific regions that meet longstanding criteria would need to have all new development include a minimum solar output per square foot of property for all new construction New homes would be required to have a minimum solar output, as well as businesses, including the cheapshit stripmalls.

I agree in not putting in solar panels onto areas where you get 3 feet of snow on your roof. That's just silly. Well not silly, stupid.

Unfortunately, corporations who's board members have an incurable gold fever pretty much have a chokehold on the US government. Land developers are also paving over every square inch of landscape in order to make a buck, or a few million. People who make money, vast sums of it, don't really care if they're doing something wrong. They want to live in comfort, and it is their legal right to do so. To them it's not an issue of morality, nor do they care. People who complain are merely fools to be brushed aside.

In the end, it's going to be painful. The legislature in the United States is controlled by a collective monarchy governed by and ego with a lunatic self-interest. The only way to solve the problem is public humiliation, and severe social pressure that makes sense.

Propaganda can be fought, but to win the hearts and minds propaganda to do the right thing must be compelling, and not appear as moronic liberal tripe, but the ethical choice, the socially acceptable modus. The pursuit of an ecological balance is worthwhile, but it is also a modern game of crowns; politics and assassination, both of reputations and the more literal translation, or avoiding the later.

When people like Al Gore, a rat at the well intentioned throat, are cast aside, and the notion of "I have the right to f#%k you all" is challenged as wrong and cast down, being recognized for what it is, then the right way, the best way, the way of balance can move forward. Until then, and if this thing, this growing gray scab isn't treated, everything will be paved over. There will be nothing left. Los Angeles from coast to coast, every animal in a zoo, can't go outside without your mask or filter, if you can afford it.

I gravely worry it's going to take a deep and ghastly wound from which we will never truly recover, when people take a ten minute walk only to choke on public air (it's not canned with a Pepsi label), or find their skin blistering under the UVs, or a wealthy man's child dies riddled with lumps and disease, will something be done. Only then will this era where man's spirit and flesh is slowly consumed by a growing cancer be seen for what it is. Only when tears begin to flow as rivers, to my dread, is when the scabs are washed away, and the scars take root to intone a bitter lesson for all time.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!onethreefiveΩwtfdoublewin!!11

[Charlie]

Helios ejaculated:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!onethreefiveΩwtfdoublewin!!11

I'm still editing, post a comment in a half-hour or so.

Ok, done editing, as of 2:27 am Austin Time. So feel free to quote the entire text as a whole, mash your keyboard with lots of OMGWTFs with random symbols while trying to look like the witty-monkey you are, or whatever floats your boat.

[Zakharra]

Conservative seem to mean id*ot.
- No, we do not know if we are doing any damage to the enviroment (Zak)

I think the idea on spending more money on education might be a good idea (from the other thread) as conservative also seem to mean misinformed.

Keep up the fight Mulu, GF and others.

More money has been spent on education in this country than at any point in history. Still it doesn't seem to work because of several factors. Among them the people who run the school boards, the bearucrates(sp), Democratic politicials (yes, I name them, specifically) with their political correctness BS, teachers unions(not neccessarily the members, but the unions themselves). Throwing money at education will never solve the problems.

I agree that we are doing some damage, but not to the degree that the 'experts' say we are. According to them, we are responsible for ALL of the climate change, and the US in particular. I've been told that the computer models that are being used, by MorbidKate I think, have taken everything into account. Yet we are not able to accurately predict the weather for more than a few days. Hurricane forecasts are a roll of the dice, until they hit, then the weathermen/women can say for sure where it is headed.
I find it odd that there is so much rabid fanaticism in blaming humanity for this problem as the sole cause.

That sounds very much like religion fanatics to me.

I don't understand it. Let's say you either don't believe anything about environmental damage or don't care. Fine. Doesn't it still make sense to cut down oil usage to what we can get from our own sources plus friendly nations, like Canada and Norway and such, so we can afford to pull out of the Middle East entirely and let them kill each other without us wasting resources and lives? And doesn't it save you a nice load of money to get a more fuel efficient car, and insulate your house a bit and toss up a solar panel to lower your utility bills?

Cut down from foreign oil yes, but the same people who want us to do that also forbid us from developing domestic and nearby sources of oil. It would not make much difference in the oil price anyways. Oil is sold as a commodity on the world market, so the price would go up no matter who's oil we bought. Unless we managed to use totally US controlled sources.

It's also a moot point unless there is a alternative to oil. It is used in almost everything. From a part of the product to the fuel to move ot from raw product to the factories to the stores for sale. It is the only fuel of the world economy.
I would not buy a fuel efficient car. 1; I cannot afford the $2-3000 higher price, 2; None are big enough for what I have to use it for, 3; There are none that I would trust unless it's made by Subaru.

[Zakharra]

Well, despite your protestations, you do not have a constitutional right to own and use a leafblower. That's reserved for guns, which have a very low carbon output. In fact, guns probably count as a carbon saver, given that their only function is to kill people, thus reducing carbon consumption.

As to the rest, you are clearly part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Another type of engine, typically found in lower power machines, is known as a two-stroke engine and is commonly found in the following equipment:

Lawnmowers
Garden tractors
Grass trimmers
Leaf blowers
Chain saws
Dirt bikes
Jet skis
Small outboard motors

Two-stroke engines are less fuel efficient and pollute more than 4-stroke engines. For example, a personal watercraft that uses a 70-horsepower, two-stroke outboard motor, emits the same amount of hydrocarbon pollution in one hour as the engine of a new car would if it were driven 8,000 kilometers.

The true problem lies in people like you.

I use a riding lawn mower, because it is a heck of alot faster to cut the lawn with it than a unpowered push mower. I also use a chainsaw. We burn wood for heat and need it to get the wood for fuel in the winter.

[Nyarlathotep]

GF Wrote

Japan should be uninhabitable by now

However isn't Japan now prone to attacks by giant monsters that were resurrected due to nuclear testing? Have we learned nothing from Godzilla's destruction of Tokyo?





However I'm bored with the climate change debate, we've had it too many times already here, ironically the debate itself has reached a point where it could be considered a wasteful use of energy due to the fact that it is more than probable most participants are having this argument using grossly overpowered computers.

So lets argue about something else...I propose the treatment of endangered spieces, lets go with wolves for now.

http://www.defenders.org/releases/pr2007/pr070507.html

Enjoy.