Bush administration loses global warming case

[Mulu]

Living in California I don't actually need a heater.

For the record, the worst case scenario of sea level rise is seven meters, based on ancient sea levels.

[Stormseeker]

*grins* Well i am a couple of hundred feet above sea level so what the hell do i have to worry about.

[NickD]

what the hell do i have to worry about.

All them city slickers from neew york movin t' yer back yard, on account of them houses bein' unda water?

[NESchampion]

what the hell do i have to worry about.

All them city slickers from neew york movin t' yer back yard, on account of them houses bein' unda water?

That's what shotguns are for my friend.

[Grand Fromage]

You're not concerned about 'black' prisons, Gitmo, extraordinary rendition, the Patriot Act, wiretapping, and so on...

but you are concerned about the EPA?

Amazing how fucked up some people's priorities are, isn't it?

[Zakharra]

You're not concerned about 'black' prisons, Gitmo, extraordinary rendition, the Patriot Act, wiretapping, and so on...

but you are concerned about the EPA?

The black prisons, are being dealt with, according to the media newies.

Gitmo? I have no problem with that place at all. I don't see what problem the Democrates, media and the world has with Gitmo.

Exxtrodinary redition, I don't have much of a problem with that either. everyone piles on the current President about it, yet it was started under the previous one, and no fuss was raised about it then...

The Patriot Act, There are some things in it that could be problematic, but it's in the process of being made toothless by the Democratic Congress

Wiretapping? Legally, it's done and I had no problem with the government tapping the lines of people getting calls, from outside of the US from known/suspected terrorists. Domestic surveillenace(sp) my butt Pfft.

the so on. That depends.

[ayergo]

I'm more worried about the DMV myself. They let any cracked-out psycho drive a car these days, and thats far more likely to end my life in a way i have no control over.

As for shotguns, i give you this pearl of wisdom:

"When your only tool is a shotgun, all your problems start to look like zombies."

RAmen

[White Warlock]

• Zakharra wrote, "The black prisons, are being dealt with, according to the media newies."

No, they are not... and the fact it is taking so damn long, as well as the fact it happened in the first place, is what you should seriously be concerned about. -- Click Here re: "Black Site" Prisons

• Zakharra wrote, "Gitmo? I have no problem with that place at all. I don't see what problem the Democrates, media and the world has with Gitmo.

Umm, let me present the problem for you...

The U.S., which alleges to represent honor, justice, freedom, and the "higher ground," has for 'years' imprisoned and interrogated thousands of people without charging them with a crime, and without allowing legal representation. A complete dismissal of legal prudence. This is in 'direct' violation of the Geneva Conventions. Where in this are you 'not' having a problem?

• Zakharra wrote, "Exxtrodinary redition, I don't have much of a problem with that either. everyone piles on the current President about it, yet it was started under the previous one, and no fuss was raised about it then...

Sometimes it comes to the attention when something placed is used improperly. Such is the case with ER. So, yes, there you should have a problem with it. Not merely for its existence, but for the inappropriate exploitation of its 'wording,' as opposed to its intent when put into effect.

• Zakharra wrote, "The Patriot Act, There are some things in it that could be problematic, but it's in the process of being made toothless by the Democratic Congress

Oh crap dude... where have u been?!?

• Zakharra wrote, "Wiretapping? Legally, it's done and I had no problem with the government tapping the lines of people getting calls, from 'outside' of the US from known/suspected terrorists. Domestic surveillenace(sp) my butt Pfft.

Umm, dude, you do realize it has already been 'confirmed' that 'domestic' surveillance was being performed, right? Or are you truly only looking at the news that 'affirms' your beliefs?

Information is not a 'belief/disbelief' notion. We're not talking religion here, we're talking the state of our existence, and the fundamental rights not only of Americans, but of the Human Race. How can you be so dismissive of all that, and hold so tightly to the falsities posed by opportunistic merchants?

And yes, that's exactly what it is Zak. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, ex-General of the Army and renowned strategist for the American participation in World War II's snuffing of the Nazi Regime, penned this issue as the, "Military/Industrial Complex," and in his Farewell Address, warned the nation to be, "vigilant" in ensuring that this, "Military/Industrial Complex" does not start dictating the Nation's policies, and bringing us to war for the sake of profit.

Unfortunately, although his warning did not come too late, it came unheeded... and here you are, blissfully dismissing the atrocities committed by an administration heavily bent upon the idea of ensuring dominance of International Commerce through military ends.

"A Nation, for the People, by the People, of the People," not a, "Nation for the Profit, by the Profit-margin, of the Profiteering." Or am i on the wrong Planet?

[Mulu]

Information is not a 'belief/disbelief' notion.

If only that were true. Realize that whatever right wing information outlet Zak reads / listens to is gospel to him. Everything else is misinformation.

The ironic part is that the people who normally spew this stuff would love to see transgendered Zak hanging from a rope. He's defending the ideologies of those who would gladly kill him. Zak is an interesting case study.

[HATEFACE]

Information is not a 'belief/disbelief' notion.

If only that were true. Realize that whatever right wing information outlet Zak reads / listens to is gospel to him. Everything else is misinformation.

I've always looked at both ends, both liberal and conservative. I've always been conservative. I watch a broad range of news programs. Yes, one of them is fox news. OOOOH N-N- NOES!!!

I listen to liberals online, I let them spew on and on about what they believe to be true. I let them talk about how they're always right and how republicans are nothing more then ill informed bigots. Oh, but guess what? There are a vast majority of republicans out there who don't come from the bible belt.

The ironic part is that the people who normally spew this stuff would love to see transgendered Zak hanging from a rope. He's defending the ideologies of those who would gladly kill him. Zak is an interesting case study.

. . .But that statement, right there, has got to be the most B.S. statement I've ever heard in my life. If anyone should be hung here, it should be you for your arrogant, ignorant, and gross remark.

To Zak, I'm glad you stick up for what you believe in.

Zicada, do us all a favor and close this thread before Mulu or someone else makes more of an ass of themselves by saying shit they'll end up regreting.

[White Warlock]

Well thank you very much Helios for indicating how you prefer people stand up for what they believe in, rather than allow themselves to become educated. As i stated, it's not religion we're talking about, so 'belief' is not the issue here. What truly matters is that people allow themselves to learn, to become informed, and not to take a stance on a 'belief,' and then resist any and all information presented that somehow 'challenges' that belief.

Btw Helios, praising Zak while condemning others in this thread, is part and parcel to indicating your agreement to his beliefs, not to his 'sticking up' to his beliefs. Don't falsify your position by praising the sacrificial lamb. It's not going to get past the snuff test.

And yes, i could have been more courteous and respectful just now, but then again, so could you have been. No punches held when gloves are off, eh?

[mxlm]

I listen to liberals online, I let them spew on and on about what they believe to be true. I let them talk about how they're always right and how republicans are nothing more then ill informed bigots. Oh, but guess what? There are a vast majority of republicans out there who don't come from the bible belt.

(snip)

. . .But that statement, right there, has got to be the most B.S. statement I've ever heard in my life. If anyone should be hung here, it should be you for your arrogant, ignorant, and gross remark.

To Zak, I'm glad you stick up for what you believe in.

Zicada, do us all a favor and close this thread before Mulu or someone else makes more of an ass of themselves by saying sh*t they'll end up regreting.

You don't see the contradictions in what you posted?

[zicada]

This beeing OT, and well within the rules, i see no reason to close this just yet. Seems we're going through exactly the same arguments over and over in these, but if you get a kick out of it, keep talking.

[Mord]

We should totally rename OT to the more appropriate "Spam pits"

[Zakharra]

Ok, WW. I'll go thru it point by point.

Zakharra wrote, "The black prisons, are being dealt with, according to the media newies."

No, they are not... and the fact it is taking so damn long, as well as the fact it happened in the first place, is what you should seriously be concerned about. -- Click Here re: "Black Site" Prisons

Have not a number of them been closed down in the last few years? They are secret prisons, which makes them hard to find.

Zakharra wrote, "Gitmo? I have no problem with that place at all. I don't see what problem the Democrates, media and the world has with Gitmo.

Umm, let me present the problem for you...

The U.S., which alleges to represent honor, justice, freedom, and the "higher ground," has for 'years' imprisoned and interrogated thousands of people without charging them with a crime, and without allowing legal representation. A complete dismissal of legal prudence. This is in 'direct' violation of the Geneva Conventions. Where in this are you 'not' having a problem?

Because the US position has been consistant to it's view on their status. It's been said in this, or another thread that the US has not ratified all of the GC's additions. Among them is recognizing that non uniformed fighters are NOT covered by the GC. A fact which has the rest of the world all hot and bothered (oh no, we are denying cvil rights! Damned straight we are). I do not recognize that any terrorist or terrorist supporters as having civil rights. However, I do agree that they should be tried and processed, not left to rot in beuarocratic limbo. Trie them, just not in civilian courts.

Zakharra wrote, "Exxtrodinary redition, I don't have much of a problem with that either. everyone piles on the current President about it, yet it was started under the previous one, and no fuss was raised about it then...

Sometimes it comes to the attention when something placed is used improperly. Such is the case with ER. So, yes, there you should have a problem with it. Not merely for its existence, but for the inappropriate exploitation of its 'wording,' as opposed to its intent when put into effect.

No, I do not have a problem with it. ANYTHING can be used improperly. Improper wording or not. The fact that some prisoners are sent to other cocuntries for questioning do not bother me at all. Have a problem with it? Elect people who share your views and work on changing the laws on the nations the prisoners are sent to.

Zakharra wrote, "The Patriot Act, There are some things in it that could be problematic, but it's in the process of being made toothless by the Democratic Congress

Oh crap dude... where have u been?!?

In the US, listening to the crap the media and Democrat Congress spews out on a regular basis. The Congress has the power to change the law. THere are also a number of provisions in it that are nearing sunset. By the way, I do agree that it should be voted on every few years by the Congress. None of this should be made permanent. The USSC has also in recent years pushed back a few parts of it, as i understand it.

Zakharra wrote, "Wiretapping? Legally, it's done and I had no problem with the government tapping the lines of people getting calls, from 'outside' of the US from known/suspected terrorists. Domestic surveillenace(sp) my butt Rolling Eyes Pfft.

Umm, dude, you do realize it has already been 'confirmed' that 'domestic' surveillance was being performed, right? Or are you truly only looking at the news that 'affirms' your beliefs?

Information is not a 'belief/disbelief' notion. We're not talking religion here, we're talking the state of our existence, and the fundamental rights not only of Americans, but of the Human Race. How can you be so dismissive of all that, and hold so tightly to the falsities posed by opportunistic merchants?

It was not domestic spying, it was on phone calls from people outside of the US, to people inside the US. International calls. For all of the calls against it, the Congress did NOT demand that it be changed or stopped. No bills have been submitted that I known of, outlawing the practice, and Congress was briefed on it. A fact that is rarely brought up.

What fundimental rights are you talking about? The US consitution only accefts uS citizens. It cannot affect anyone else, or be applied to anyone else. Why? Because it is a US document, not a world document. If it does effect the people of the world, then why is not US law in effect world wide. By legal law(as I understand it) a country's laws only apply in it's territory, not beyond.

I'm for treating people to a decent standard, provided they aren't terrorists. It's how well non us citizens should be treated that I run into problems with others. Like illegal aliens. Those people should have no rights, since they are breakign the law twice over. willingly. Non US citizens that are in the US, such as student visas, visitors, legal workers, should have protection under the law, since they are here legally. Illegals, no.

Unfortunately, although his warning did not come too late, it came unheeded... and here you are, blissfully dismissing the atrocities committed by an administration heavily bent upon the idea of ensuring dominance of International Commerce through military ends.

I do not see some of those things as atrosities, since if it was a Democrat Presitdent that were in office, most of the 'atrossities' that have been documented/made up, would not be reported on. The mainstream media of the US hates the President with a loathing rarely seen. Look at how they report on anything that happens? How many 'scandles' have been made by them? Like the lawyer firings? That supposedly is a scandle, but it's been recognized as being legal to do. No reason has to be given. Hells, only 8 lawyers were left go, and one of them was intending to quite anyways. Sheesh. Yet the media and Democrats are busy trying to prosecute a non crime. Hearings before Congress and all. Aimaing for what looks to be a process crime of lying before the Congress. Like they nailed Libby. The man was not charged at all for what he was being investigated with, but he got nailed for something else entirely.