McCain taps Palin for VP!

[ç i p h é r]

I have heard the smears, certainly, but I'm not the one smearing. I'm the one saying it doesn't belong in the election dialogue. That journalists would exercise such poor judgment and integrity as to introduce this into the dialogue is not surprising. Media has for a long time been transforming into the tabloids, focusing more on sensationalism and less on journalism. And some, like MS/NBC have abandoned journalism altogether.

"Don't believe everything you read" has never been truer than it is today.

ETHICS REFORM

Since you brought up California, the LAPD has a reputation for corruption second to none. It's synonymous with corruption and racism, so it makes perfect sense why crooked cops would still keep their jobs there. That's business as usual in LA.

But here's the thing. If you're ACTUALLY interested in ethics reform, these cops are exactly the sort of bad apples you would get rid of and the bureaucrats that shield them are exactly the sort of people that you would fire. Sound familiar? If you weren't a Democrat and if Palin weren't a Republican, you know you'd be applauding her for cleaning house in Alaska. This is absolutely in the public interest (including yours), and you know it's so true that it scares you. She could be the real deal, and Americans are soooo hungry for someone who'll clean out the corruption in government that they might actually back the Republican ticket in this race.

THE AMERICAN DREAM

As regards the Obamas being the exception in achieving the American Dream, is the implication then that the Obamas should be the rule (ie the norm)? So, MOST Americans should be multi millionaires and that can be achieved through "better" government policy? Don't you think you're overlooking a whole lot of factors, not the least of which are individual gifts and talents that can't just be given to someone? A lot of folks just don't seem to get the fact that people get rich through hard work. It's really no more complicated than that.

And if you don't think people are better off today than they were 60 years ago, you've got to be living in a bubble. Haven't you seen the growth that has taken place in communities across the nation over the past 15 years? Are you aware that in 2005, the number of millionaires in America hit a RECORD? Are you aware that most millionaires in this country are owners of small businesses (ie entrepreneurs, ie people pursuing the American Dream), not CEOs of multinational corporations or Trust babies? No offense, but what country are you guys talking about? It's not America.

[ç i p h é r]

Drilling for oil is not an all or nothing game. Getting more oil and having more supply will drive prices down just as decreasing the demand will (and has in recent weeks). So the question is, why shouldn't we increase domestic supply? Why buy it from Islamic nations who we know help fund radicalism? This isn't the end game, it's the start.

And I'll go one step further and steal the idea from Alaska. Let the oil companies drill for oil domestically, tax them reasonably for the privilege, and give that money back to the people. Maybe they'll splurge on a nice hybrid vehicle. How's that for a plan that will help all Americans? It'd improve Congress dismal 9% approval rating too. Hey how about it...government serving the people???

[Nalo Jade]

All valid points Cipher...

But the way you are selling it is not the way it is being sold to us...

[Nalo Jade]

And if you don't think people are better off today than they were 60 years ago, you've got to be living in a bubble. Haven't you seen the growth that has taken place in communities across the nation over the past 15 years? Are you aware that in 2005, the number of millionaires in America hit a RECORD? Are you aware that most millionaires in this country are owners of small businesses (ie entrepreneurs, ie people pursuing the American Dream), not CEOs of multinational corporations or Trust babies? No offense, but what country are you guys talking about? It's not America.

Sorry had to jump in here...

If the value of the dollar has decreased and inflation has risen since the 60's and the population has increased... Does that statistic really work still?

[Mayhem]

The number of millionaires increasing can easily be due to the devaluing of currency as due to an increase in prosperity.

Having a wheelbarrow full of money is not too impressive if you need it all to buy one loaf of bread.

[ç i p h é r]

That's pretty funny spin. I've not seen a million dollar loaf of bread in the United States. We're on the dollar here, not the rupie. It's not as much as it was in 1940, but it is still an extraordinary amount of money. Feel free to perform an "inflation adjusted" analysis, if that floats your boat, but it should be noted that this was a 21 percent increase from the prior year.

[Nalo Jade]

Stats can say anything we want ...so no point in that.

If I am a homeowner and decide to get cable for $70 a month, and I also decide I need to work less hours...does this help my situation?

If I am a country and decide to go to war for millions a month, and I also decide I need to collect less taxes...does this help my situation?

[ç i p h é r]

Stats can say anything we want ...so no point in that.

Sure, but they're worth more than words. They at least help support an argument.

On to the hypotheticals....

If I am a homeowner and decide to get cable for $70 a month, and I also decide I need to work less hours...does this help my situation?

Depends:

1. If you want to make more money, no
2. If you want to enjoy your life more, yes

However, if you own your own business, or if you've made a lot of wise investments, or if your spouse works too (maybe more than you), you can certainly have your cake and eat it too. But I suggest you first define your goal then figure out how to achieve it (the plan). This is what successful people do.

If I am a country and decide to go to war for millions a month, and I also decide I need to collect less taxes...does this help my situation?

Depends:

1. if you're trying to prevent an attack on your homeland in order to protect your citizens, yes of course it does
2. if you're trying to prevent an attack on your homeland to guard your financial and economic health, yes of course it does
3. if your tax cuts stimulate economic growth to the tune of increased revenues, yes of course it does

The world can be complicated, but it's fun to play hypotheticals. Do you want to rephrase?

[fluffmonster]

THE AMERICAN DREAM

As regards the Obamas being the exception in achieving the American Dream, is the implication then that the Obamas should be the rule (ie the norm)? So, MOST Americans should be multi millionaires and that can be achieved through "better" government policy?

No, of course not and don't attribute claims to people that they never made. That's like asking someone out of the blue why they beat their wife. Nobody said people should be millionaires or that it should be a government objective to make them so.

Don't you think you're overlooking a whole lot of factors, not the least of which are individual gifts and talents that can't just be given to someone? A lot of folks just don't seem to get the fact that people get rich through hard work. It's really no more complicated than that.

Yes, it is more complicated. You are the one overlooking the "whole lot of factors". Not everything that leads to success or even middle-class comfort is just given to people at birth. There's education and values and health. If you never get the skills, if you can't stay healthy, or even if you have to spend all your time caring for a family member who is ill, you are denied the Dream. What you are doing is taking for granted a lot which many people cannot.

And if you don't think people are better off today than they were 60 years ago, you've got to be living in a bubble. Haven't you seen the growth that has taken place in communities across the nation over the past 15 years? Are you aware that in 2005, the number of millionaires in America hit a RECORD? Are you aware that most millionaires in this country are owners of small businesses (ie entrepreneurs, ie people pursuing the American Dream), not CEOs of multinational corporations or Trust babies? No offense, but what country are you guys talking about? It's not America.

That only supplements my argument and undermines yours, but you're missing it because you have failed to put these facts in an appropriate context. The number of people in poverty has grown more in absolute terms. But a big increase in millionaires...seems pretty consistent with widening inequality to me...more for the top, fuck the bottom. Hell, you didn't even seem to read your article:

Much of the increased wealth can be traced to stock market gains, according to the report. About 37 percent of the investable assets of Americans with net worth of $500,000 or more are in stocks and mutual funds and another 14 percent are in IRAs. About 9 percent is in cash.

Doesn't say anything about small businesses or entrepreneurial success, there or anywhere else inthe piece. You take it on faith that you only have to work hard to have the high life, and anybody who sits at the bottom only does so because they're too lazy. This doesn't even begin to consider the fact that it is never solely the efforts of anyone that contributes to their wealth...people only get that way at all in the context of the society that supports it. I'd like to see all those people try to be millionaires in Somalia no matter how awesome they supposedly are.

You also misinterpret the 60-year timeframe I used...it is a plain fact that there has been more growth and less inequality under democratic administrations than under republican administrations. No one ever claimed that growth was negative under either as you imply was said by retorting that we're not worse off. Very sloppy logic.

Nobody claims everyone has a right to be a millionaire. Nobody is even claiming that we need to stop people from being millionaires. What we do need to do is invest in our future in ways that the market won't, and give the less fortunate just enough of a base to succeed or fail on their own. That has to be paid for, and the naked fact is that the rich can best afford to pay for it.

[MorbidKate]

Are you aware that in 2005, the number of millionaires in America hit a RECORD

Are you aware the US jobless rate has rocketed to 6.1%?

"Unemployment surges to 5-year high as employers cut workers for eighth straight month. Total job losses for 2008: 605,000"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/05/news/ec ... tm?cnn=yes

Glad to see the trickle down effect of all those new millionaires eh?

Kate

[Nalo Jade]

@ Cipher

no man, I have let apathy take over.



We aren't trying to work together to create solutions we are just trying to prove points, prove we are right...

It's pretty easy to think making your point is more important than the actual problem. (i'm guilty too.)

When's the last time you heard a politician say, "I had this idea, and turns out it was not a good one, I'm glad the other party pointed it out."

It has to happen, cuz both sides can't be right and no one side can always be right while the other is always wrong (though they would like us to think that.)

[MorbidKate]

Funny to see Palin's lies bubbling to the surface.

She never sold the Jet on eBay and never sold it for a profit. She tried to sell it four times before a broker sold it, for a loss of about a half million dollars.

Palin looks like the lovechild of Bush & Cheney.

Btw, anyone been watching Stewart & Colbert the past couple weeks? The flip-flopping newsclips over the attacks against Clinton to the defence of Palin by the GOP has been classic.

Kate

[Mulu]

I have heard the smears, certainly, but I'm not the one smearing. I'm the one saying it doesn't belong in the election dialogue.

19 months later. Seriously, if you really had that belief, why didn't you start preaching it when Obama was the target? Or Hillary? Or John Kerry in 2004? You only started giving a shat when it was one of your own.

Since you brought up California, the LAPD has a reputation for corruption second to none.

Says who? Chicago is far worse. And I didn't say LAPD, I said California. Glendale, Burbank, you name it and I can find an example of a wife or child beating cop who's still on the beat. Policing tends to attract right-wing Christian lunkheads who think it's perfectly acceptable to beat their family members. About the only department that does categorically fire abusers is SFPD, and that's nationwide.

But here's the thing. If you're ACTUALLY interested in ethics reform, these cops are exactly the sort of bad apples you would get rid of

Funny how the only one she cared about was the one divorcing her sister.

Palin looks like the lovechild of Bush & Cheney.

I was going to say Limbaugh and Colter.

And on the economy, let's not forget child poverty is at an all time high too. Here's my crayon graphic that drove HF so nuts.

[oldgrayrogue]

Hey Kate, I posted the link to the Jon Stewart clip above. Its classic and quite compelling.

And Cipher, the media is quite guilty of tabloid journalism. But I would say the right wing media has been far more vicious and less issue oriented than those left leaning. Also far more shamelessly inconsistent (as the stewart clip aboves proves) and completely unwilling to admit their inconsistencies.

What's worse though is that on the republican side its not just the media. The Obama Nation book was completely backed and promoted by the conservative republican machine as was the whole swift boat book and smear that killed John Kerry. It is part of their political strategy.

Finally, I am not surprised at the increase in millionaires at all. The policies of this administration are specifically designed to favor and promote the interests of the most wealthy. That however is not the measure of the success of a country. And certainly not when we have a motgage and financing crisis with record home foreclosures, several failed lenders and threatened failures of major financial institutions, the highest feul costs -- ever, auto makers on the brink of bankruptcy, rising inflation, rising unemployment -- do I even need to continue? This is the country I live in and what is happeneing each day. That is the problem with the republican party, they measure the success of government by the accumulation of individual wealth. It takes quite a bit more to have a successful economy and country. We all sink or swim together. That seems to have been forgotten.

[Mulu]

Here's a nice bit on republican hypocricy. Enjoy.

http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/cc_i ... t-ann.html


IMO this should be run as a national campaign ad.

BEST VIDEO EVER!

I tivo the Daily Show, so I hadn't seen these yet. Brilliant stuff.