McCain taps Palin for VP!

[HATEFACE]

That they have no rights because they don't follow the american idealogy & and have deeply rooted anti-american sentiment.

Just what is the american ideology exactly?

People ask me, do I hate Bush for all he has done? No. I disagree with what specific people within the administration have done. it's one thing to create a scapegoat out of a president in order to curry political favor, is quite another to analyse a situation and place blame where it ought to be placed and correct the situation.

Except that the buck stops with him. He is the commander in chief, the leader of the country. He lives and dies by the decisions his administration makes. If his administration does something stupid, he has to wear that. If someone he has brought in makes a bad decision, it is every bit the presidents fault as it is theirs, especially when he backs them to the hilt despite their idiocy.

You cannot just wipe your hands and have all blame cast aside because "it wasnt me". Not when your the president. Not when your the public leader of any political party. It all comes back to them. In 100 years time, when they are teaching history, the kids aren't going to learn that in the early 21st century Dick Cheney the vice president sent America to war, it will be President Bush.

It wasn't Bush. Maybe if he was born to be king, but he wasn't. Maybe if he was clairvoyant he could anticipate what people do. There is no way to tell what a person can do until they rise up to the occasion. You can speculate upon their past ability but that's all. My only complaint is that Bush isn't a military leader. The inability to realize that america is departamentalized for a reason with decentralized mini governments governing over different aspects of the united states is a bit mind boggling Swift, but there it is. Forgive me if you are aware of this, it seems implied that you are not. "He lives and dies by the decisions his administration makes. If his administration does something stupid, he has to wear that." One world, One government, One people. Imgine, hope, change, believe it. The audacity of it, of what? Hope? Hope of what? Being Obama? According to you Bush wears the bullseye and the dead albatross. The Iraq war, it hangs upon his neck.

By your logic, Do you then blame Bill Clinton for the militant abduction of Elian Gonzalez? Not Attorney Janet Reno or Al Gore?

Or do you not blame anyone at all? Perhaps not with your neat albiet not unique way of thinking and processing information.

Just a little heads up on how Elian is doing now. He's all grown up and once wore a Young Pioneer uniform of Cuba's Communist youth league. I think it's a baseball team in cuba, right? Must of been from all those wonderful childhood nightmares of having a Mp5 pointed at his little noggin. Furthering the left agenda and anti-american sentiement? Check.

"Al Gore's [26] handling of the matter may have been as great a factor as anger by the predominantly Republican Cuban community over the boy's return to Cuba. Gore initially supported Republican legislation to give the boy and his father permanent residence status, but later supported the Administration position."

But that is understandable with socialists siding with socialists. Forget bipartisanship.

Understand that if Bush was getting information from incorrect individuals, he too, would be incorrect. Does that make him responsible? No, it doesn't. It makes people who were wrong about aspects of the Iraq war responsible. Bush has apologized, same with then secretary Rumsfeld but that wasn't enough for adopted & capilized political populsim of democrats to fall in line and support a war weary population to convert them toward a sense of hate for conservatism. - Not to mention! The very fact that there are now crazy individuals who would side with terrorism. Osama Bin Ladin =! George W. Bush. Saddam Hussien =! George W. Bush. I hope that clears some things up.

Petraeus is doing a wonderful job thus far. John McCain is a military man and will no doubt have a sense of urgency about letting terrorism foster and America doesn't need this.

Sorry that I disabled your scapegoatism. Just because you're the president doesn't mean you always speak for everyone. In fact, as president you should know you can't please everyone but you can try to make a difference for the country and people you serve. Often times it requires doing the right thing whether it is popular or not. History has shown that often, presidents will cave to pressure and not do the right thing when its required of them. I believe president Bush has done the right thing, including listening to McCain about the surge. We will have bases in Iraq for a long time after this. Once it is stable, it will become a great place to visit, and history will show that maybe splitting the country up wasn't such a great idea after all and even Iraqis, being human, can still work together toward peace. - You're the one who started the speculation.

Then the kids will grow up, get out of grade school, hopefully go to college, and learn a thing or two. Unless they were like my political teachers who view republicanism as a great scourge upon the planet or some such nonsense. It's enough that I pass their class and learn something not regard them as the absolute authority. Doing so, limits a person.

Oh, and for the record, I credit Bush for faith based initiatives and charities. There, you can use that.

Just what is the american ideology exactly?

I would like to hear it from a democrats point of view actually.

[fluffmonster]

Ideology is un-American. That shit's for commies and terrorists.

[Swift]

Just what is the american ideology exactly?

I would like to hear it from a democrats point of view actually.

Thats nice, but you threw it in, and i actually asked you, not a democrat. If a dem wants to chime in and answer as well thats cool, but i asked you. What do you consider the American Ideology to be?

I cannot imagine it would be hard to answer, considering how forthright you are about how wrong everybody else is.

Just a little heads up on how Elian is doing now. He's all grown up and once wore a Young Pioneer uniform of Cuba's Communist youth league. I think it's a baseball team in cuba, right? Must of been from all those wonderful childhood nightmares of having a Mp5 pointed at his little noggin. Furthering the left agenda and anti-american sentiement? Check.

Yes, because President Bush has been a shining beacon for the eradication of anti-american sentiment

Oh, and for the record, I credit Bush for faith based initiatives and charities. There, you can use that.

Ahhhh i get it. When it all goes swell and and the save the children brigade are happy, the president gets credit, but when things go pear shaped, its not his fault, its his peons?

You can't have it both ways. You have to take the good with the bad, and remember, the bad is remembered far longer than the good, and it won't be Dick Cheney or Alberto Gonzales that gets remembered when the bad is brought up, its George Bush.

[HATEFACE]

"to the end it may be a government of laws and not of men," My favorite quote. One of them any way.

Want to know what we are? Look toward the founding fathers. Born in enlightenmentism, maybe, but still, they're still a fuck load smarter than most people now days. Must of been all that introspection and book reading. Good place to start swift. Looking forward to your post about what America is.

[Swift]

Want to know what we are? Look toward the founding fathers. Born in enlightenmentism, maybe, but still, they're still a f*sk load smarter than most people now days. Must of been all that introspection and book reading. Good place to start swift. Looking forward to your post about what America is.

How hard is it to answer a simple question? You are the one that threw the 'american ideology' into the debate, is it that hard to define? or is it simply that the american ideology is different things to different people, once which flies in the face of hardcore "Im right and everyone else is wrong" people like yourself (and just about every religious person i have met)?

Once again, i havn't asked what my definition is, or GFs, or Danubus, or Jesus Christs, im asking you.

Edit: Hows this? Am i getting close here?

Not all think the same way about the Cold War era, which began about 1948 and closed down 1989-90, especially with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991. But perhaps Eisenhower was right in speaking of the existence of an American ideology. He was also correct in seeing that its main elements were sharply opposed to the corresponding ideology of the pre-Gorbachev Soviet Union, when yet dominated by Stalin's version of Communism. For the American ideology, like the Patriot's hat in 1776, has ha d three corners: Christianity, Constitutionalism and Capitalism. In contents, it will become clear, each of these was frontally incompatible with the Communist ideology of the Soviet Union.

That what we getting at? Intolerant Religious BS again?

[HATEFACE]

Just what is the american ideology exactly?

I would like to hear it from a democrats point of view actually.

Thats nice, but i actually asked you, not a democrat. If a dem wants to chime in and answer as well thats cool, but i asked you. What do you consider the American Ideology to be?

Just a little heads up on how Elian is doing now. He's all grown up and once wore a Young Pioneer uniform of Cuba's Communist youth league. I think it's a baseball team in cuba, right? Must of been from all those wonderful childhood nightmares of having a Mp5 pointed at his little noggin. Furthering the left agenda and anti-american sentiement? Check.

Yes, because President Bush has been a shining beacon for the eradication of anti-american sentiment

Oh, and for the record, I credit Bush for faith based initiatives and charities. There, you can use that.

Ahhhh i get it. When it all goes swell and for the greater good, the president gets credit, but when things go pear shaped, its not his fault, its his peons?

You can't have it both ways. You have to take the good with the bad, and remember, the bad is remembered far longer than the good, and it won't be Dick Cheney or Alberto Gonzales that gets remembered when the bad is brought up, its George Bush.

Sorry man, it smells like a turd, tastes like a turd, it's probably a turd. So, I look at this turd shaped, smelly lump, and I craddle it. I go; "What are you?!" and I come to the best reasoning I can. You may 'independant' but this evening, I'm smelling a lot of them. Not to mention your stances with various posts leads me to believe you're a democrat, or uphold something similiar to modern european neo-liberalism.

Well, consider me a remedial history history teacher. To bad history is a lot more studious now days. Everything is catalogued from videos to inside meetings. You cant take a shit without someone knowing about it. I don't care how many books are written to spin a profit, when no more profit is to be made and no one gives a shit, people, who actually give a damn about history, will look at it. That is for them to know, isn't it?
So uh, let's be reasonable here Senor. Bush championed for that faith based stuff. That was his shit even before elected So you see, its not a matter of me having my cake and eating it too. It's just the facts. Its so clear cut. Feel free to be disillusioned though.

Now as far as an american ideology, well, fluff, spoke first. And he's right, to a degree, even though he was kidding. (I think.) It's an ideology of no ideology. Semantics, people want it both ways. No idealogy, what? In reality, it is brilliant combination based off of enlightenmentism, constitutionalism, judeo-christian principles. It is a very complicated balance of principles and combination of ideologies therein to make ONE ideology, one that binds us together, no matter the nationality, or ancestral heritage. You must trust in people and allow them to contribute and learn and know this combined ideology. If you do not trust in people. . .
. . .then. .. you get despotism rather than republicansim, perhaps that is the fundamental flaw of Geoge W. Bush. The inability of bipartisanship in some aspects of of his presidency. Does Obama seem like the man who is willing to listen to republicans rather than battle them constantly? Don't ask me, man, dig up James Madison, ask him.

[Kest]

[Swift]

Not to mention your stances with various posts leads me to believe you're a democrat, or uphold something similiar to modern european neo-liberalism.

1) Im not american
2) I only hear about republicans and democrats when its election time, so i care little what each one stands for
3) I identify far more with many (but not all) stances of the Australian Labor Party over the Liberal Party, without being a member of either (being a card carrying member of a political party carries far, far less importance and significance to most Australians than it seems to for Americans), though apparently the ALP constitution defines themselves as a democratic socialist party. I would assume they align closer to the Dems than the GOP, but ill let someone else make the comparison.

To the rest, see, it wasn't that hard now, was it

Edit: Unrelated to the specific topic at hand, Chris Rock says it best:

But the whole countries got a fucked up mentality, we all got a gang mentality. Republicans are fuckin' idiots and democrats are fuckin' idiots and conservatives are idiots, and liberals are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they hear the issue is a fuckin' fool. Everybodys so busy wantin' to be down with a gang...its bullshit. Be a fuckin' person. Listen. Let it swirl around in your head, then form your opinion. No normal, decent person is one thing.

Chris Rock, Never Scared. Skip to around 7:25 for quoted text, or watch from a little earlier for a bit more lead in (this is part 3/8 of the special).

[HATEFACE]

Not to mention your stances with various posts leads me to believe you're a democrat, or uphold something similiar to modern european neo-liberalism.

1) Im not american
2) I only hear about republicans and democrats when its election time, so i care little what each one stands for
3) I identify far more with many (but not all) stances of the Australian Labor Party over the Liberal Party, without being a member of either (being a card carrying member of a political party carries far, far less importance and significance to most Australians than it seems to for Americans), though apparently the ALP constitution defines themselves as a democratic socialist party. I would assume they align closer to the Dems than the GOP, but ill let someone else make the comparison.

To the rest, see, it wasn't that hard now, was it

To admit a single fault of Bush that would be carried over with Obama? No, not at all.

I'm not really aware of Australian politics but I gotta like old school european liberalism. It's popular in america, championed by the demcrats for a loooooooooooooong time, even still today. Most republicans believe they abandoned this principle to something. . . different, a little more sinister demographic of socialism. It just seems more and more push for state control in sublte ways. It's definately not Laissez-faire any more and that is a little sad. So now democrats view us as some sort of free-market nutcases, as though we prefer anarchism. The colbert report and Daily show doesn't help any. People are dumb enough that the comedy and that idea of "republicans dumb. Democrats smart." becomes implanted in the minds of the viewers. Some even see it as actual news. Well fuck us, if we have fox news, eh? Our parties have been around for a long ass time and there is a whole lot of bullshit between the two but at least we can come together on common ground to get shit done even though, its. . . no longer the important stuff. Just trival bullshit that no one even cares about.

[NickD]

I support Alaska's desire to secede from the union.

I think America should just break up into 50 different countries and get it over with. I mean it's already a fractured country with different laws for different states. Different taxes, different ages of consent, homosexuality is illegal in some states, some states allow the death penalty, you can have relations with a horse in Nebraska, Casinos are only legal in 17 states, prostitution is legal in 2 states, gay marriage, legal gender of a transexual person, etc, etc, etc. Each state would have a different age at which you could drink as well if it didn't mean the government would take away funding. Polygamy is only illegal in name in whatever state all those Mormons live in.

So, 50 different countries, but with a relationship like the European Union. I think that'd make most people happy.

[Kest]

So, 50 different countries, but with a relationship like the European Union. I think that'd make most people happy.

well that would make texas happy

which states would make the best countries

[Grand Fromage]

That's how the country started and it didn't work at all, sir.

[Mulu]

Oh that's a no brainer, California would make the best country.

Fox News is perferable to your droll social commentary

Depends on the audience.

You believe they sit doe-eyed at the television screen absorbing all they need. No, they're just ignoring your ignorant ass.

No, they really do seem to get comfort from the propaganda. It's a lot like religion. Well, they're old too.

Not all moderate republicans like Lieberman, we like him, but we don't like like him, if you get my drift.

You're not a moderate, not even close. Moderate Republicans think global warming needs attention, want evolution taught in schools, and are pro-Choice, but also believe in a strong military and that taxes should be minimal and policies should be pro-business, thus they vote Republican mostly on economic policy with a little military thrown in. Moderate Republicans are a dying breed. In the near future I suspect they'll be known as Obama Republicans, like the Reagan Democrats.

Go vote for your global warming denying creationist ticket, right-winger.

Bush has apologized...

LAWLS!
The president sets policy, and his policy was to invade Iraq, no matter what the excuse. He solicited misinformation. And faith based initiatives like abstinence only education and promoting Intelligent design is what you see as the highlight of his Presidency? Back to being a right-winger.

I agree that American Ideology came from the founding fathers, you know those Liberal Diests who hated Christianity and prepared the foundational documents for the country like the Declaration of Independence and in particular the Constitution. The Bill of Rights contain an ideology that is the law of the land.

[HATEFACE]

No, it did not GF. We're united by a common interest and although that interest varies from time to time, we can still come together to get shit done. There is nothing wrong with strong states in this union, so long as one doesn't over power the many others. I really like that show on history channel, the states. Sometimes it shows you stuff you never ever knew about your own state. I will say that if Boondock Alaska feels abandoned way up there on the ass end of no where, they feel they get no representation, than fine, have a political movement who is geared toward suceeding from the union. Also 5 delagates from alaska for ron paul 4 teh lulz.

Hey GF! Nice forum avatar. I like that movie a lot but I like most of Scorsese's films. Daniel Day was of course top knotch in it and that was the first film I realized Leonardo DiCaprio can act. Cameron Diaz, meh Okay.

[Grand Fromage]

The Alaska secessionists are kind of dumb though, Alaska gets the sweetest deal anywhere. Oil profit-sharing and the Federal government pays you to live there, how can you bitch about this.

I mean, sure, the Chinese are going to invade in the 2070s and start a nuclear war over you, but...