Iran

[NickD]

I just caught a glimpse of a senior US Naval officer on CNN saying that US Marines would never be taken without a fight.

Same as the article I linked on the second page, or are more yankees saying that?



Woot! I made a 12 page thread!

[Lusipher]

hey did you know that the fence along the border with Mexico will actually be put up by illegal immigrants?? Those bastards will be digging a lot of holes under the fence on purpose

[Mikayla]

Dan:

We are getting way off track here, but if I must...move to Europe or Canada. Im sure they would love to have you

Why don't you move if you don't like the way things are going? America is supposed to be the land of freedom, equality and justice - not the land of Christian bigotry.

Dan:

I really dont want to get into a pissing match with you Mik because Ive come to a point in my life where Im actually respect you a great deal with your workings at ALFA. Your personal life is your own and I dont really want to go back and forth over all again. We just disagree and that wont change.

If my personal life is my own, you should not care that I am treated equally by the government.

Dan:

Its not a matter of equal rights to me. Its a matter of religion.

Your religious views should not dictate my secular rights. No one's bible is the constitution of this country. If your church wants to exclude me, fine, I have no problem with that - but this country, and its secular government, are for all Americans, not just intolerant Christians (and I say "intolerant Christians" to differentiate between the intolerant ones like Dan and the ones who embrace our community).

Dan:

People expect me to roll over and be tolerant. I personally dont want to sound like a bigot or whatever anyone thinks of me, but I also dont want to roll over and give up a fight that most americans my age or older dont want to concede. I dont hate anyone. If a gay person wants to live their lives the way they see is right for them then fine, but I personally dont want to see our government give them equal rights with insurance, health care, etc. Im sure as I said in the future it will happen, but doesnt mean those of us who are conservatives wont fight it as best we can.

That is discrimination, and as you've said, its discrimination based upon religious beliefs and that is anathema to our country's founding principles.

Dan:

I know a number of folks who are gay and are great people to be around and I actually call some my friends and some my family members. Its their choice to make and it doesnt make me hate them, but it doesnt make me want to just let them have whatever they want either. Tolerance doesnt mean I have to cave in.

Whatever we want? You make it sound like we are asking for the moon - but you've already pointed out what we want: equal rights, health care, etc. Is that so awful? You enjoy those rights - why shouldn't we? Are we not human beings?

Dan, if there is a god and if that god has problems with us Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgender people, then I am sure that god will let us know when we die and will do whatever god needs to do - if there is a god, god does not need you discriminating against us down here. Now, as I've said, you don't personally have to be tolerant in terms of who you want to be friends with, of what church you go to, of what you believe - your church, your faith, can exclude queer folks from now until the end of time if you like.

But the U.S. Government is not YOUR church - its OUR government. And as I've said, your religious beliefs should not dictate my secular rights.

[NickD]

Its not a matter of equal rights to me. Its a matter of religion. People expect me to roll over and be tolerant. I personally dont want to sound like a bigot or whatever anyone thinks of me, but I also dont want to roll over and give up a fight that most americans my age or older dont want to concede. I dont hate anyone. If a gay person wants to live their lives the way they see is right for them then fine, but I personally dont want to see our government give them equal rights with insurance, health care, etc. Im sure as I said in the future it will happen, but doesnt mean those of us who are conservatives wont fight it as best we can.

I know a number of folks who are gay and are great people to be around and I actually call some my friends and some my family members. Its their choice to make and it doesnt make me hate them, but it doesnt make me want to just let them have whatever they want either. Tolerance doesnt mean I have to cave in.

Dan, you are absolutely correct! Marriage is a religious institution, and as such churches should not be forced to corrupt their beliefs on the insistance of the government!




... Of course with the separation of church and state and as marriage is a church thing, nobody should get any benefits from being married. That's what I'm going to put into effect when I'm president of the USA.

[HATEFACE]

There has to be a reason why he says stay the course. . . Isn't there? Can't just be propaganda. Usually propganda works. Maybe there is something we just don't know about. I choose to reserve judgement.

Helios, belief is understood when it comes to religion, but we're not talking something that should accepted on mere faith. We have the right to know, and it is our 'duty' to find out.

What are you trying to find out detective Holmes?

This isn't about blindly following someone or faith.

[quote"Helios"]
Can't just be propaganda. Usually propganda works.[/quote]


[quote"Magonushi"]Wow. Propaganda is only propaganda if it's working?

A few people in this thread need to pause for a momment before writing their next post rather than just spurting out words, hoping to beat the (hopefully impending) thread lock[/quote]

Yeah, I was hoping you would quote that.

Thanks for recognizing the statement for what it is. Also thanks for adding the Wow. It makes me feel warm inside.

Quote
So, if you were drafted into the conflict, what would you do? Feel free to express your opinion.


I can honestly state I don't know. Maybe I'd go, maybe I'd go to Canada. Or Mexico. Or whatever. Would depend. On what, I'm not sure.

Certainly, the numerous Nam vets I've heard/read essentially expressing the opinion 'stay away from combat if at all possible' would have some bearing.

Equally, the cause of the draft would have bearing. As is, a draft would political suicide. It'd take a rather significant event to change that, and I can't very well say what I'd do in case of x.
Quote:
I can donate and do all I can, when I can.


Respect. I dunno how to type that without seeming condescending, so [insert sincerity emoticon here].
Aww, go ahead and give it a try.

Mxlm, I knew that you would go to canada or mexico. I'm also glad I'm not the only coward here. *whew* is that a relief, I thought I was going to be the only one.

[quote"White Warlock"] talking about donating... how about donating to life-preserving causes, instead of life-taking causes? I mean, what's all this yell and holler for supporting the troops, when there's an entire government, virtually all the tax dollars, and everyone's future Social Security benefits, being thrown into filling Iraqis, insurgent and collateral, with bullets and bomb fragments?

It's not an unreasonable choice. Of the incredible amount of money poured into this war, the U.S. could have ended starvation in the 'whole' of Africa. Think about it...[/quote] Hmm, yeah. You got a point there White Warlock. Do you have a favorable charity that you like to give too?

[mxlm]

Mxlm, I knew that you would go to canada or mexico. I'm also glad I'm not the only coward here. *whew* is that a relief, I thought I was going to be the only one.

I said maybe. Maybe, you teamkiller!

Take another hit, then read it again. Goddamn hippy.

[HATEFACE]

Mxlm, I knew that you would go to canada or mexico. I'm also glad I'm not the only coward here. *whew* is that a relief, I thought I was going to be the only one.

I said maybe. Maybe, you teamkiller!

Take another hit, then read it again. Goddamn hippy.

Silly mxlm, maybe really means yes.

[HATEFACE]

You got me. Well spoken arguements fellas. Good job. Your arguements and well put statements have proven me wrong. I know how difficult it was too. Seeing as how I made it nigh impossible for a counter-arguement. You vastly informative political titans, you. I respectfully bow out.

[White Warlock]

talking about donating... how about donating to life-preserving causes, instead of life-taking causes? I mean, what's all this yell and holler for supporting the troops, when there's an entire government, virtually all the tax dollars, and everyone's future Social Security benefits, being thrown into filling Iraqis, insurgent and collateral, with bullets and bomb fragments?

It's not an unreasonable choice. Of the incredible amount of money poured into this war, the U.S. could have ended starvation in the 'whole' of Africa. Think about it...

Hmm, yeah. You got a point there White Warlock. Do you have a favorable charity that you like to give too?

I don't have a favorite, no. I provide based on the requests posed to me, or when i find time to volunteer at a local food drive, soup kitchen, or outreach program. Here are two sites providing information on various U.S. based charities. As some organizations are borderline profiteers, i've learned it's always good to do your homework first, find out exactly how much of your money is applied, or what they do with your non-cash donations.

http://www.charitywatch.org/

http://www.charitynavigator.org/

[Magonushi]

I respectfully bow out.

I respectfully thank you.

[Grand Fromage]

Its not a matter of equal rights to me. Its a matter of religion.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with a few minor details:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." (Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, unanimously ratified by the Senate and approved by John Adams)

"All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." (George Washington)

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." (Thomas Jefferson; this became official policy with Reynolds v. United States, 1878, and Everson v. Board of Education, 1947)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (Bill of Rights)

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Jefferson)

You may recognize some of those names as having something to do with the foundation of the country. Keep your religion to yourself. Oh,and uh:

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Your god seems to agree.

[Lusipher]

Dan, if there is a god and if that god has problems with us Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgender people, then I am sure that god will let us know when we die and will do whatever god needs to do

Your correct, Mik. Im sure in the end we all will make attonement for what we have done on this Earth. You made your life and you will pay for it in the afterlife.

The US government can give you all the rights in the world, but it wont change my views or those who dont want homosexuality to be the norm. As I stated it will happen sooner or later for your culture and it will be a sad day for this country as one more chunk of what made this country great is torn away.

Doesnt matter what you or I post back and forth our views wont change. Your welcome to call me whatever you want, but I and folks like me will still fight for whats morally right. Either in courts or wherever.

[AlmightyTDawg]

Your correct, Mik. Im sure in the end we all will make attonement for what we have done on this Earth. You made your life and you will pay for it in the afterlife.

http://www.devilducky.com/media/58747/

[Lusipher]

Least it wasnt one of your long winded speeches T-dawg.

[AlmightyTDawg]

Least it wasnt one of your long winded speeches T-dawg.

This ladies and gentlemen is Danubus Lite! It's just like a normal Danubus post with 1/2 the carbs and bile-filled hate!