Religion Discussion

[White Warlock]

Btw, i find it extremely hypocritical when people (in this case, Dan) argue "right to life," but when they are informed of hundreds of thousands of men, women, elderly and children killed by Coalition forces in Iraq, they have the gall to respond with, "too bad, that's war."

Selective murder, eh?




(lol, i'm an ancient red dragon, go figure)

[Vaelahr]

Now... this is an example of incorrectly assuming. To be quite frank with you bud, two of my children were aborted, for medical reasons.

Medical reasons? And what, might I ask, were those?

I had one child, who was murdered at 11 months by the stepfather. As far as I know, I have no living offspring.

I'm truly very sorry to hear of the death of your three children.

Bringing a child into the world is not so cut and dry. Sometimes you need to consider just where that child is going to end up. This grossly ignorant assumption of yours that people are lining up to adopt... is just that, ignorant.

http://statistics.adoption.com/informat ... ldren.html

Most of the US's adopting parents adopt from overseas out of neccesity. Too few infants are put up for adoption in the States to meet the demand of would-be parents.

Maybe you might want to spend a little time visiting some of the foster homes or County juvenile habitation centers. Maybe you might want to visit some of the orphanages out there, or maybe visit some of the more deprecating neighborhoods and get a clue as to just what happens to both the child and the parent when abortion is not chosen.

Studies show children who have been raised in orphanages have done better personally, scholastically, and financially when compared to the rest of the population.

Click around and have a good hard look. A very far cry from the horror-shows you'd like to paint orphanages as. Also note the majority are well-run by *gasp* those awful Christians you liberals insist on despising.

Maybe, as well, you might want to consider that when a woman carries a child to full term, there is a chemical process that occurs within her, making it virtually impossible for her to release the child to adoption. A bonding occurs, but if the mother is not fit for raising the child, or circumstances exist that would make it a gross hardship for both mother and child, then the choice to abort... before the chemical influence hits, is the far better route to take.

Your callous disregard of a woman's emotional health post-abortion, coupled with your zeal towards the abortion of unborn children, is..... sad, dude. Seriously. Post Abortion Syndrome is real. But I guess if a woman has issues after an abortion, she's weak or emotionally unstable ("See, you weren't fit to raise a child") or otherwise has something wrong with her......right?

It's that interesting question; "Shouldn't every child be a wanted child?"

To use being wanted by someone as a measure of whether a human life is allowed to live is a frightening concept. Its converse logically awaits us.....that the unwanted can be eliminated. Don’t forget, Hitler’s Germany was ideal for wanted Aryans. Since when does anyone’s right to live depend upon someone else wanting them?

[White Warlock]

Now... this is an example of incorrectly assuming. To be quite frank with you bud, two of my children were aborted, for medical reasons.

Medical reasons? And what, might I ask, were those?

None of your business, and where do you get off asking in such a manner, you juvenile prick.

I'm truly very sorry to hear of the death of your three children.

One was murdered, the other two were never born. I already regret mentioning it. Don't bring it up again.

http://statistics.adoption.com/informat ... ldren.html

The information presented there is relying upon independent studies performed 10 to 15 years ago. Grossly unreliable. I will, however, review this further to obtain a more informed opinion.

Studies show children who have been raised in orphanages have done better personally, scholastically, and financially when compared to the rest of the population.
Click around and have a good hard look. A very far cry from the horror-shows you'd like to paint orphanages as. Also note the majority are well-run by *gasp* those awful Christians you liberals insist on despising.

Are you going to honestly compare orphanages in Africa to orphanages in the U.S.?

Your callous disregard of a woman's emotional health post-abortion, coupled with your zeal towards the abortion of unborn children, is..... sad, dude. Seriously. Post Abortion Syndrome is real.

Your assumption that i have no regard for it is shortspun, as my ex-fiancee' and I underwent this together, twice. Regardless, you might want to look at Post Adoption Depression Syndrome before you become inclined to wave your little finger at me again.

[Vaelahr]

Your assumption that i have no regard for it is shortspun, as my ex-fiancee' and I underwent this together, twice.

And we all know what happens when we assume.......we get our penis stuck in our zipper........and bloodstains on our white slacks...........which we awkwardly have to explain to the children standing outside our ice cream truck......

[Lusipher]

Anyway, One major thing I cannot stand and Obama SUPPORTS is partial birth abortions. How freaking insane and inhuman is this when you let a baby be almost all the way out of the womb and then you cut its head off? That is something we see savages doing. This is the kind of nonsense your buddy Obama wants to allow. Its disgusting and cruel. Anyone who thinks this is alright to do is just sick.

[Zelknolf]

Y'know, when a thread's creator shows up and kindly asks everyone to stay on topic and no one does it, I think it's time for a lock.

plz?

[danielmn]

CAKE!

[Swift]

Anyway, One major thing I cannot stand and Obama SUPPORTS is partial birth abortions. How freaking insane and inhuman is this when you let a baby be almost all the way out of the womb and then you cut its head off? That is something we see savages doing. This is the kind of nonsense your buddy Obama wants to allow. Its disgusting and cruel. Anyone who thinks this is alright to do is just sick.

So, it took me exactly 90 seconds of googling to find this, a post on a blog of 2 questions posed to, and answered, by Obama about his stance on abortion. Lets have a read of the first one shall we, since it is focused on the topic you raised. (Emphasis is mine, website has a link to the site who did the full interview)

Strang: Based on emails we received, another issue of deep importance to our readers is a candidate’s stance on abortion. We largely know your platform, but there seems to be some real confusion about your position on third-trimester and partial-birth abortions. Can you clarify your stance for us?

Obama: I absolutely can, so please don’t believe the emails. I have repeatedly said that I think it’s entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don’t think that “mental distress” qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term. Otherwise, as long as there is such a medical exception in place, I think we can prohibit late-term abortions.

The other email rumor that’s been floating around is that somehow I’m unwilling to see doctors offer life-saving care to children who were born as a result of an induced abortion. That’s just false. There was a bill that came up in Illinois that was called the “Born Alive” bill that purported to require life-saving treatment to such infants. And I did vote against that bill. The reason was that there was already a law in place in Illinois that said that you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances, and this bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn’t think it was going to pass constitutional muster.

Ever since that time, emails have been sent out suggesting that, somehow, I would be in favor of letting an infant die in a hospital because of this particular vote. That’s not a fair characterization, and that’s not an honest characterization. It defies common sense to think that a hospital wouldn’t provide life-saving treatment to an infant that was alive and had a chance of survival.

Wow, fancy that, your post was based entirely on a tiny snippet of what his actual stance is. According to a World Health Organization (pdf file) report from 2005, 9 out of every 100,000 childbirths in the developed world end in the mother dieing. If there are real problems that seriously risk the life of the mother, you are going to tell her family that, regardless of the risk, she has to complete the act of child birth, because her babies life is more important than her own, and she has no choice in the matter?

I am struggling where you got that he supports it. All i am finding is 2 year old articles based on his opposition to a bill tabled in Illinois, the reasoning having been explained in the Q&A linked to and shown in this post.

[danielmn]

Moar Uninformed spewing of partial facts to headbang with party lines plz!

CAKE!

[Vaelahr]

According to a World Health Organization (pdf file) report from 2005, 9 out of every 100,000 childbirths in the developed world end in the mother dieing.

The figure can sometimes be reported as high as eleven. Usually included in maternal mortality, are all deaths from induced abortions and ectopic pregnancies. Included also in maternal mortality are all women who die while pregnant from almost any cause that is in any way related to pregnancy. Different states require longer or shorter lengths of post-partum time, but, typically, maternal mortality also includes any related death within one year after delivery. Maternal mortality also includes deaths from caesarean section.

I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term....

If there are real problems that seriously risk the life of the mother...

There are none.

The "life of the mother" line is an emotional screen used by the pro-abortion crowd....always has been.

[Swift]

The "life of the mother" line is an emotional screen used by the pro-abortion crowd....always has been.

So your going to sit there and tell me, with a straight face, that the moment a problem is detected that could poses a risk to the mother, its too late and shes just got to deal with the fact she may never live to hold her child if she goes through with it?

Your going to sit there and tell me that out of the 9 mothers per 100,000 that die during childbirth, their lives were doomed and there was absolutely no way known to man her life could have been saved?

Jesus christ you are seriously fucked up.

Now i don't support late term or partial birth abortion. I find the practice repulsive myself. But i find it more repulsive that a woman should be forced into a risky child birth because of this whole sanctity of life bullshit that religion pushes. That is inhuman. That is savage.

[Vaelahr]

The "life of the mother" line is an emotional screen used by the pro-abortion crowd....always has been.

So your going to sit there and tell me, with a straight face, that the moment a problem is detected that could poses a risk to the mother, its too late and shes just got to deal with the fact she may never live to hold her child?

Your going to sit there and tell me that out of the 9 mothers per 100,000 that die during childbirth, their lives were doomed and there was absolutely no way known to man her life could have been saved?

Jesus christ you are seriously f*cked up.

No sweetheart, I'm telling you that abortion..... is not....... necessary....... to save a woman's life.

That, my friend..... is what's fucked up.

But i find it more repulsive that a woman should be forced into a risky child birth because of this whole sanctity of life bullshit that religion pushes.

Religion? I'm pro-life based on science and common sense. And abortion....is what's risky....riskier in fact; uterine perforation, cervical lacerations, excessive bleeding, infection, placenta previa, post abortion syndrome, and an increased risk of a future pregnancy being tubal (ectopic) - statistics show a 30% increased risk of ectopic pregnancy after one abortion and a tripled percentage increased risk of ectopic pregnancy after two or more abortions. Which I find interesting....it's like nature realises the womb is unsafe and tries to have the baby develop eleswhere.

[White Warlock]

So, do any of you christian republicans support ID (intelligent design) teaching in schools (even science class next to evolution) ?

Social studies does spend a reasonable amount of time discussing various religions and their base beliefs. But, i do think more a indepth theology course should be optionally available.

Also, it would be nice when some of you say you're religious, if you'd also note if you're deist or theist, since there's a pretty huge difference.

I am not Christian, nor Republican, nor Athiest, nor Democrat. I am also not Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Daoist, etc etc etc. In short, I am me.

Should there be a separation of church and state ?

This is a shotgun question. Separation in what manner? What specific areas of State should Church be separated from? In one respect, State and Church is not separated, in that Church receives the benefits of "non-profit" status, and thus a quite significant break from taxation. In another respect, Church may receive government grants and loans. Churches may lobby representatives and senators. They offer advice during Executive meetings and election campaigns. They write bills and encourage Congressional officers to sponsor them. They encourage suits through the courts, and influence judges, senators, representatives and even Presidents through threat of no-votes during re-election.

So... when you say separation of Church and State, what are you referring to?

[White Warlock]

No sweetheart, I'm telling you that abortion..... is not....... necessary....... to save a woman's life.

That, my friend..... is what's f*cked up.

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't realize you had a doctorates degree in medicine ... Vaelahr.

Religion? I'm pro-life based on science and common sense. And abortion....is what's risky....riskier in fact.

That depends largely on the medical issue. My best friend's wife died because her immune system perceived the fetus in her womb as a foreign body. Had they realized what was going on, she could have lived. However, the means to save her life, among other things, would have required an abortion.

Your ignorance is immense, and your arrogance surpasses your ignorance. Move on... talk about something you know, instead of something you don't.

[Vaelahr]

No sweetheart, I'm telling you that abortion..... is not....... necessary....... to save a woman's life.

That, my friend..... is what's f*cked up.

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't realize you had a doctorates degree in medicine ... Vaelahr.

You're internet savvy. Show me wrong. You can't. And you're unwilling to do honest homework on the subject. I realise it's an uncomfortable topic for you and again, I'm sorry to hear of your losses.

Religion? I'm pro-life based on science and common sense. And abortion....is what's risky....riskier in fact.

That depends largely on the medical issue. My best friend's wife died because her immune system perceived the fetus in her womb as a foreign body. Had they realized what was going on, she could have lived. However, the means to save her life, among other things, would have required an abortion.

You're lying and/or have been lied to. You describe an Rh incompatibility scenario (often caused by previous abortions/miscarriages). Obstetricians usually detect early and take care of this with RhoGam injections. Otherwise, what will happen is the child will need blood transfusions after birth or.... the mother's antibodies will destroy the baby's red blood cells causing a miscarriage. That, I'm sure, is what happened with your friend's wife. Abortions are never needed for Rh incompatibility and removal of a miscarried child is not an abortion.