McCain taps Palin for VP!

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MorbidKate
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Post by MorbidKate »

Mulu wrote:No, I'm just a lot more knowledgeable about human behavior than you are.
Mulu wins the weekly WhiteWarlock wannabe award for that line :P

I worked with a Christian Coalition jackboot Republican who got her boyfriend to smack her guts with a phonebook to trigger the abortion they wanted to have "naturally" miscarry and I'm aware of others who've done similar things to get around their messed up beliefs. That's right up there with the Catholic Church trying to keep people in developing countries from using condoms and to hell with millions who catch preventable STDs every year. It's all about the babies ;)

As for Palin the pick is a joke. If McCain wanted a woman on the ticket he has far better options than an "outsider" (code for totally inexperienced and unprepared) who's family sounds like they should be on Springer. Better yet, the pick sounds like the pilot of BSG ;)

And by the way, ya think the preggo daughter wasn't part of the calculation??

The world wants and needs Obama to win but after 2004 nobody believes the US is capable of making a sane choice anymore.
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Post by fluffmonster »

Fortunately, "the world" doesn't get a vote.
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Post by Dorn »

Unfortunantly, in 2004 it didn't.

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Post by mxlm »

MorbidKate wrote:
I worked with a Christian Coalition jackboot Republican who got her boyfriend to smack her guts with a phonebook to trigger the abortion they wanted to have "naturally" miscarry
How did you find that out? I mean, did she tell you or something?
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Post by MorbidKate »

mxlm wrote:
MorbidKate wrote:
I worked with a Christian Coalition jackboot Republican who got her boyfriend to smack her guts with a phonebook to trigger the abortion they wanted to have "naturally" miscarry
How did you find that out? I mean, did she tell you or something?
Yes.
"We had gone in search of the American dream. It had been a lame f*ckaround. A waste of time. There was no point in looking back. F*ck no, not today thank you kindly. My heart was filled with joy. I felt like a monster reincarnation of Horatio Alger. A man on the move... and just sick enough to be totally confident." -- Raoul Duke.
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Post by mxlm »

I guess it makes sense; if you're fucked up enough to have your boyfriend hit you in order to trigger a miscarriage, you're probably fucked up enough to tell people about it afterward.

My mind boggles (to be clear, I wasn't suggesting I didn't believe you; I just, I dunno, assumed that's the sort of thing you don't tell people about. Guess I was wrong).
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Post by MorbidKate »

mxlm wrote:I guess it makes sense; if you're f*cked up enough to have your boyfriend hit you in order to trigger a miscarriage, you're probably f*cked up enough to tell people about it afterward.

My mind boggles (to be clear, I wasn't suggesting I didn't believe you; I just, I dunno, assumed that's the sort of thing you don't tell people about. Guess I was wrong).
Oh I hear ya. We've been close friends for years and she never said anything for a very long time but now that she's married and wanting children she's been haunted by the fact she hasn't been able to get pregnant again. Our political views are very different but we're still close friends.

Kate
"We had gone in search of the American dream. It had been a lame f*ckaround. A waste of time. There was no point in looking back. F*ck no, not today thank you kindly. My heart was filled with joy. I felt like a monster reincarnation of Horatio Alger. A man on the move... and just sick enough to be totally confident." -- Raoul Duke.
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Post by fluffmonster »

MK wrote: As for Palin the pick is a joke. If McCain wanted a woman on the ticket he has far better options than an "outsider" (code for totally inexperienced and unprepared) who's family sounds like they should be on Springer. Better yet, the pick sounds like the pilot of BSG ;)
That belies a fairly profound ignorance of the American electorate. Palin is an excellent running-mate for McCain. She lets the evangelicals and social conservatives get over their distaste for McCain which shores up the party base, taps into the "vagina vote" (people who want a woman; you heard it here first), carries a rep as someone who cleans up government which taps into the desire for change, is a party maverick which helps to diffuse connections with the bankrupt Republican establishment, and she looks good on TV. She is a very shrewd choice by McCain and is very much in tune with the Republican political vibe. You may not like her, but she's hardly a stupid choice.

The thing is, the social conservatives will end up dragging the Republicans into the fringe unless they find some way to cope. That is a great big part of their base, but it drags the party so far to the right that it leaves the center wide open for the Dems, which as a more fractious group have more latitude to position themselves. McCain and the Republican party in general are in a very weak position (a great deal of which can be blamed on Bush). Palin may be a risky choice, but for Republicans now safe choices are naught but bricks in the road to fail.
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Post by Mikayla »

I don't think Palin is a good choice to get the votes of those who are pushing for a woman in office (I will not use Fluff's term as its needlessly insulting), reason being that most of those folks (as I understand it and as I have observed) are very pro-choice. Palin is the anti-thesis of what most feminists want in a female politician, and if anything, will more likely alienate the women who were behind Hillary but who are now adrift.
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Post by ç i p h é r »

What's this? A one-sided thread with a bunch of liberals agreeing with one another? How boring! Allow me to introduce some objectivity to this 9 page discourse, or at least, a little diversity. :P

I like Sarah Palin. Like with Obama, she's a fresh new face in politics, which is something Americans are hungry for. While her daughter appears to have made a serious error in judgment, that wasn't something Sarah did. If you're not predisposed to a Democratic bias (in which case it matters little who we're discussing), then you'd simply judge Sarah on how she deals with the situation, and I think she's dealing with it properly.

Clearly, she's not a "social elite"; They don't have "pregnant teenage daughter" issues, not because it doesn't happen but because they "deal" with them quietly. I don't think this is a net plus or a net minus, but it certainly makes her more human in the eyes of voters. What she has going for her is that she appears authentic. And that appeals to ordinary, working class folks who're sick of politics-as-usual and the hypocrisy of the political class.

Policies aside, I think you folks miss the point with Palin (or choose to ignore it). I don't believe she was selected solely because she is a woman. Sure, that must have been part of the calculation, but it's incredibly naive to think that's all that mattered to the McCain campaign. If you look into some of the analysis or just pay a little attention, there are other reasons for the selection, which collectively only she could bring to the ticket:

1) appeals to social conservatives (pro-life) and 2nd amendment advocates (pro-gun), two pillars of the Republican Party which he had credibility issues with
2) appeals to the working class (union member, challenged big oil, knowledgeable on energy issues)
3) has a track record for reform on ethics and pork barrel spending
4) brings an excitement to the McCain campaign that no other candidate would have brought
5) she actually walks the talk
6) AND she's a woman!

As for the election itself, the last thing the world needs is another under-experienced, under-qualified man in the White House (I thought Democrats had reached this conclusion with Bush), and the last thing America needs is a president that is weak - or looks weak - on foreign policy issues. Obama must have agreed given his selection of Biden, but Biden isn't the one running for President; Obama is. So the Democratic ticket is shaping up to be eerily similar to Bush-Cheney, only with a different set of priorities, and the Freudian slips only reinforce the idea that Biden will assert himself on Obama much in the way that Cheney has on Bush. This is only natural when the ticket is too light in experience at the top and too heavy in experience at the bottom.

This is not change we can believe in.

Now, I genuinely like the guy. I think he's a decent man, something which we just don't see in politics anymore, and has a bright future ahead of him, but he has unquestionably gotten ahead of himself here. The only people really buying his line that experience doesn't matter are young, idealistic voters who simply don't understand the value of experience to begin with. If you have a problem with an inexperienced VP, you should MOST CERTAINLY take issue with an inexperienced president. The VP is just along for the ride (with only 2 constitutional responsibilities).

p.s. Veilan, that Rush Limbaugh quote in your Spiegel article has no context. I'm not a regular listener of his show, but he's never struck me as racist. He might be referring to the hyper-sensitivity of "color" and "race" in the United States, which is a cultural phenomenon you wouldn't necessarily understand, to the extent that the Democratic leadership couldn't prevent Obama's nomination for President despite recognizing his lack of credentials.

p.p.s. Mulu, I suspect you must know this already having children yourself, but Sarah wouldn't have known that her child had Down's Syndrome until at least the 4th month of her pregnancy. That's when Amniocentesis is typically performed and verifies if in fact chromosomal abnormalities exist. I also suspect that you know she's been an avid runner long before she was pregnant with this child or even knew it had Down's. She may well have run even with her other children - a lot of women do to try to remain as slim as possible during their pregnancy. So to suggest that she started running to abort a Down's Syndrome pregnancy is about the most indecent, disgusting display of partisan smearing that I've seen. Congratulations. I hope that someday, you reap what you sow. That you would be permitted to post such stuff here is an indication of what ails this community.
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Post by Rusty »

Rush Limbaugh quote in your Spiegel article has no context. I'm not a regular listener of his show, but he's never struck me as racist.
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Post by MorbidKate »

fluffmonster wrote:That belies a fairly profound ignorance of the American electorate. Palin is an excellent running-mate for McCain.
It's a stupid choice if something happens to McCain and that's the base of it. It's a shrewd move to use her daughter as a poster child for the pro-life and pro-family vote and use another child with Downs for the sympathetic vote and a woman to go after the Vag vote, specifically the approximate 2 out of 18 million that will likely vote for any woman regardless of their politics.

I personally find it shocking though hardly surprising that a candidate would gladly use their children for political gain to shift the issues away from the economy and foreign relations. Best of all, I can hardly wait for the don't be mean cause she's a woman shield I see far too many hide behind. You wanna play with the big boys, a lass needs a bigger pair than anyone else in the room. Maggie Thatcher was awesomesauce 8)

The Palin choice was classic Rove.

Kate
"We had gone in search of the American dream. It had been a lame f*ckaround. A waste of time. There was no point in looking back. F*ck no, not today thank you kindly. My heart was filled with joy. I felt like a monster reincarnation of Horatio Alger. A man on the move... and just sick enough to be totally confident." -- Raoul Duke.
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Post by Mulu »

ç i p h é r wrote:So to suggest that she started running to abort a Down's Syndrome pregnancy is about the most indecent, disgusting display of partisan smearing that I've seen.
So you've never watched Fox News? :P

Women do these things, and worse, as MK pointed out. If you can't get an abortion because of your religious/political views, you're left with other less savory options. And it wasn't just "running," it was a particularly grueling exertion that "tore her guts out," combined with her being not visibly pregnant apparently into the seventh month. That's just not normal. It's not crazy, or evil, to suggest something that is quite possible, despite how much you don't like it.

But I agree that she was a smart pick for VP, election-wise, and said so way back on the first page.
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Post by fluffmonster »

Seems to me, MK, that you are not separating your judgment from your perception of the motives of others. You just don't seem to get the "Republican" mindset at all, which means you are not going to understand the virtues of the choice. I don't think she's particularly qualified or a good choice for someone a heartbeat away from the presidency, but then again I am not the kind of person she is meant to appeal to.

And Mik, I agree that "vagina vote" is insulting, but as voting for someone solely for their anatomical properties is thoroughly contemptible, the insult is rather fitting.
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