More American Politics!

Voersaa · Post by **Voersaa** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:52 pm

Lusipher wrote:
And Voressa.... Obama...1 time senator. Palin One time Governor. Not much difference except Palin actually has ran a state. Obama just had lunch a lot, put present down on his voting card, and enjoyed the benefits of being a senator with his plush travel expenses. His ties to left wing radicals such as his pastor and his former teacher at the university of IL scares me quite a bit. The fact hes had ties to Chicago mafia also does. Hes also the protegee' of one of the most corrupt senators the state of IL has in Emil Jones. His shady past and lack of experience just doesnt make him the reformer or agent of change he says he is. Its a bunch of bunk.

I didn't ask you about the experience of Palin or Obama.

Lets take McCain out of the equation and only focus on Obama and Palin. Would you give her your vote over Obama?
Do you think that she would be the better president of the two?

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:39 pm

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:52 pm

Voersaa wrote:
Lusipher wrote:
And Voressa.... Obama...1 time senator. Palin One time Governor. Not much difference except Palin actually has ran a state. Obama just had lunch a lot, put present down on his voting card, and enjoyed the benefits of being a senator with his plush travel expenses. His ties to left wing radicals such as his pastor and his former teacher at the university of IL scares me quite a bit. The fact hes had ties to Chicago mafia also does. Hes also the protegee' of one of the most corrupt senators the state of IL has in Emil Jones. His shady past and lack of experience just doesnt make him the reformer or agent of change he says he is. Its a bunch of bunk.
I didn't ask you about the experience of Palin or Obama.

Lets take McCain out of the equation and only focus on Obama and Palin. Would you give her your vote over Obama?
Do you think that she would be the better president of the two?

Yes. I do. I live in IL I know how Obama has been as a senator.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:53 pm

Blackberries...mmmmm

Teric neDhalir · Post by **Teric neDhalir** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:59 pm

There's only one major issue here: Why does the McCain/Palin Website use So Many capital Letters, seemingly At Random? I'd read their policies, but my eyes are bleeding..

Oh, what the hell, some more questions; What's the GOP ticket? What's a pork barrel? Why has no-one mentioned the connection between Sarah Palin and McCain's stated intention to exploit Alaskan oil reserves? The subtext of almost all of Obama's policies seems to be that he wants to stop business/lobbyists buying policy. Isn't that unconstitutional

?

And so on and so forth..

Voersaa · Post by **Voersaa** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:01 pm

Lusipher wrote:
Voersaa wrote:
Lusipher wrote:
And Voressa.... Obama...1 time senator. Palin One time Governor. Not much difference except Palin actually has ran a state. Obama just had lunch a lot, put present down on his voting card, and enjoyed the benefits of being a senator with his plush travel expenses. His ties to left wing radicals such as his pastor and his former teacher at the university of IL scares me quite a bit. The fact hes had ties to Chicago mafia also does. Hes also the protegee' of one of the most corrupt senators the state of IL has in Emil Jones. His shady past and lack of experience just doesnt make him the reformer or agent of change he says he is. Its a bunch of bunk.
I didn't ask you about the experience of Palin or Obama.

Lets take McCain out of the equation and only focus on Obama and Palin. Would you give her your vote over Obama?
Do you think that she would be the better president of the two?
Yes. I do. I live in IL I know how Obama has been as a senator.

So basically you are saying that Obama is so bad that you don't really care who gets elected, as long as it isn't him?

Everyone is still trying to figure out what Palin is about and what her standpoints are going to be. Yet you "hate" (in lack of a better word) Obama, so much that you would vote for this unknown?

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:04 pm

It's even more simple than that, my danish friend. Obama is wearing a blue shirt, while Danubus wears a red one, like McCain and Palin.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:07 pm

Hey foolish mod, feel free to keep altering pie pictures but plz don't hotlink them, you're costing the innocent dessert lovers who originally posted them money on their hosting bills. Rehost on imageshack and then edit away, kthx.

Kest · Post by **Kest** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:34 pm

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:28 pm

Lusipher wrote: Yes. I do. I live in IL I know how Obama has been as a senator.

Hehe, you do realize a Senator is not a Governor... and thus the a Senator represents, in Congress, the State of Illinois. Also, your claims of "knowing" about Obama are trumped by your continued ignorance on just what it is he did, and what relations he had with various other persons. The limited knowledge you have thusfar presented comes right off the "present day" Fox talking points. I find it hard to believe you know anything about what Obama has done, how he entered into being a Senator, or for that matter how long he's been a Senator.

As stated by another, Obama is in blue, you're in red... and thus that is all you need to know. Admit it and stop playing this audience with your diatribes and blatant displays of ignorance.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:28 pm

Warlock, the guy isnt the messiah you make him out to be. I dont care if you honestly are blinded by his rock star status. Im not going to vote for someone who I have seen do nothing while a senator from my home state. I know his ties to the mafia, corrupt senators, and even his ties to ACORN. He did all his wonderful community organizing for that corrupt voter registration org. ACORN has been citing numerous times for voter fraud and I saw it first hand in St. Louis. Hes got a peach of a resume thats for sure.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:23 am

Lusipher wrote: I dont care if you honestly are blinded by his rock star status.

That's good, because i am not blinded by anything, unlike you... who is blinded by hate, racism, and religious fervor.

Im not going to vote for someone who I have seen do nothing while a senator from my home state. I know his ties to the mafia, corrupt senators, and even his ties to ACORN. He did all his wonderful community organizing for that corrupt voter registration org. ACORN has been citing numerous times for voter fraud and I saw it first hand in St. Louis. Hes got a peach of a resume thats for sure.

Guilty by association is not guilt... but association. Why don't you provide proof for your allegations. Provide direct participation on him committing any wrong. I happen to know quite a few gangsters, murderers, and otherwise malcontents. That does not make me a gangster or murderer (although I am somewhat of a malcontent - {grin} ). Until you provide indisputable evidence of guilt by action (not association), you're just tossing out libel.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:09 am

Veilan wrote:It's even more simple than that, my danish friend. Obama is wearing a blue shirt, while Danubus wears a red one, like McCain and Palin.

See, this Veilan guy is pretty astute. That's twice now he's been right on the money, though let me clarify the statement a bit by saying that most of the Obama supporters here wear a blue shirt too. Thus, the hand wringing over the Palin nomination and the outright dismissal of any concerns over Obama's inexperience.

On a side note, I find it really curious to see Europe largely behind Obama. The fact is, Europe (or at least many parts of it) is far more racist and xenophobic than America. The further east you go, the worse racial sentiments get. So....am I the only one scratching my head in bewilderment? Is this yet another false portrayal by a largely biased media? The funny thing is, I think this tends to backfire, probably because most Americans get rather prickly about foreign endorsements. It's our country after all, not theirs.

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:50 am

ç i p h é r wrote:See, this Veilan guy is pretty astute. That's twice now he's been right on the money, though let me clarify the statement a bit by saying that most of the Obama supporters here wear a blue shirt too. Thus, the hand wringing over the Palin nomination and the outright dismissal of any concerns over Obama's inexperience.

I agree - the fandom and lack of skepticism for Obama by his supporters, who seem more like followers, always bugged me as well. That said, the glaring hypocrisy of the republican party, and McCain having to kowtow to it, is close to convincing me, personally, that my initial wish list for president - Clinton, McCain, Obama - might just swap the last two places.

See, a good while ago, when McCain led that bill against torture, I said to a friend here "I bet you that is going to be next president of the USA.". It seems that's not out of the equation yet, however, I'm disappointed in it being because of the wrong reasons than I had believed would make him a great man for the job.

ç i p h é r wrote:On a side note, I find it really curious to see Europe largely behind Obama.

Easily explained. You'd have trouble finding out who Obama is actually running against, if you rely on our media here.

As for us being more xenophobic and racist than americans, I'm curious on what you base that perception. Imho, it's the same as everywhere - urban populations seem to be better educated, tolerant and laisser-faire, while small rural communities are more tightly-knit and protectionist, with more hostility towards strangers. Hence why your "eastern shift" is accurate - the further east you get, the more traditional, nationalistic, less urbanised societies you get.
I think these factors are a better approximation than "is american" or "is european" anyway.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:33 pm

It's based largely on conversations I've had with European immigrants that I've worked with or played soccer with over the years, and from what I've read about or seen. It's a fairly small sample of data to be sure, but I'm getting some pretty unfiltered feelings from regular folk across a large cross section of Europe. There are also incidents reported in the news, like racism in football (ex: bananas thrown at black soccer players, which is something you'd never see here) and about the unrest (often violent) within immigrant cultures, notably in England and France. These impressions were validated by someone I got to know from Switzerland, who worked in the US for about 4 years. I can't vouch for the veracity of my conclusions, but they appear to be true.

From what I've seen, Northern Europeans appear to be among the most, if not the most, tolerant people in the world. I've never met a group of people who, collectively, enjoy life more.