Chavez

Stormseeker · Post by **Stormseeker** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:09 pm

*points to the far south* Looks like it has started, so much for being a man of the people.

gribo · Post by **gribo** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:29 pm

*points to the US oil supply*
You should be worried..

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:03 pm

gribo wrote:*points to the US oil supply*
You should be worried..

*Sigh* Yet another country to add to the invasion list

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:20 pm

MorbidKate wrote:
gribo wrote:*points to the US oil supply*
You should be worried..
*Sigh* Yet another country to add to the invasion list

Has America actually won a war since WWII? I don't know why they keep bothering.

I mean, they couldn't even take out Castro...

BalvinSlice · Post by **BalvinSlice** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:31 pm

AP Wire as of 16:34 PM EST:

... Anonymous sources today confirmed that the White House is currently reviewing a draft proposal from the Pentagon. The proposal outlines the specific plan to invade Cuba and then use the same troops to invade Venezuela. Military strategist outside of the White House view Cuba as a speed bump in the planning of the larger invasion of Venezuela. The proposal is code named operation: Beyonce...

Based on her song “In the Box to the Left” (which is being perverted to PUT THE LEFTIST IN THE BOX)

Kinda a two for one deal.

BalvinSlice · Post by **BalvinSlice** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:43 pm

As for Wars won... hmm... I dont think you win any but declared victory:

Wins…
Korea (South is still there)
Grenada
Panama
Dominican Republic
Nicaragua
Libya (not a war but they shut him up)
Cold War (see Poland, Hungary, East Germany, Czech, Slovakia)
Bosnia and Serbia (late showing)
Kuwait / Iraq (first one)
Afghanistan (not over, but they sure look to have the upper hand)

Loses...
Somalia
Iraq (not over, but they sure look to have the upper hand)
Vietnam
Cold War (see Russia)

Toss up...
Cuba (they claim no involvement)

Undoubtedly I missed a few....

NickD · Post by **NickD** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:08 pm

BalvinSlice wrote:As for Wars won... hmm... I dont think you win any but declared victory:

Wins…
Korea (South is still there)
Grenada
Panama
Dominican Republic
Nicaragua
Libya (not a war but they shut him up)
Cold War (see Poland, Hungary, East Germany, Czech, Slovakia)
Bosnia and Serbia (late showing)
Kuwait / Iraq (first one)
Afghanistan (not over, but they sure look to have the upper hand)

It's a very big stretch to call most of those wars.

Korea: America withdrew after 2 years. They may not have technically lost, but they certainly didn't win.

Kuwait/Iraq: Going into someone's country, blowing up a bunch of Shiite and leaving a few days later because doing a proper invasion would be way too difficult does not mean you won a war.

I'll give you the Cold War, but you couldn't really call it a war in the classical meaning of the word. Basically it was like a game of poker where America had far more chips than Russia.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:23 pm

NickD wrote:
MorbidKate wrote:
gribo wrote:*points to the US oil supply*
You should be worried..
*Sigh* Yet another country to add to the invasion list
Has America actually won a war since WWII? I don't know why they keep bothering.

I mean, they couldn't even take out Castro...

Awe, that's just because Cuba doesn't have enough oil to get the US "motivated" enough

Same with most of the other countries mentioned in this thread too come to think of it. Minus the Middle East of course though they were certainly "motivated" there.

Venezuela is either the 3rd or 5th largest exporter of oil to the US, depending on the list you look at so they'll certainly be paying attention to any moves Chavez makes. The CIA has a very long history in Central and South America so I say we start a pool to pick the date for a revolt or assassination attempt by "the people"

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petr ... mport.html

Kate

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:24 pm

Kate, throw me in for the ides of march, '08. I'm putting 235 down on it.

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:00 am

oh, cmon....Chavez is fun. Just nutter enough to be amusing, but not so much to be much of a threat. He's just got some oil money to throw around is all. Far better anyway that his money goes to the Leftists Chorus rather than madrassas, so he could definitely be worse.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Wed May 30, 2007 6:53 am

fluffmonster wrote:oh, cmon....Chavez is fun. Just nutter enough to be amusing, but not so much to be much of a threat. He's just got some oil money to throw around is all. Far better anyway that his money goes to the Leftists Chorus rather than madrassas, so he could definitely be worse.

He reminds me of another fella, ol' Pineapple Face himself, Manuel Noriega who'll be out of prison soon as I recall. Wonder where he'll move to cause if it's Venezuela, I call dibs on the sitcom rights

Kate

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:41 pm

NickD wrote:Kuwait/Iraq: Going into someone's country, blowing up a bunch of Shiite and leaving a few days later because doing a proper invasion would be way too difficult does not mean you won a war.

Maybe not, but it's brilliant policy. Too bad the son didn't inherit that wisdom.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:43 pm

BalvinSlice wrote:AP Wire as of 16:34 PM EST:

... Anonymous sources today confirmed that the White House is currently reviewing a draft proposal from the Pentagon. The proposal outlines the specific plan to invade Cuba and then use the same troops to invade Venezuela.

Draft Proposal:

Step 1: Find an army not otherwise occupied in a quagmire in the Middle East.

Step 2: Pending resolution of step one.

BalvinSlice · Post by **BalvinSlice** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:22 pm

NickD wrote:

It's a very big stretch to call most of those wars.

Korea: America withdrew after 2 years. They may not have technically lost, but they certainly didn't win.

Kuwait/Iraq: Going into someone's country, blowing up a bunch of Shiite and leaving a few days later because doing a proper invasion would be way too difficult does not mean you won a war.

I'll give you the Cold War, but you couldn't really call it a war in the classical meaning of the word. Basically it was like a game of poker where America had far more chips than Russia.

Not sure why, but I am going to go another round. Who do you think the population in each of those countries would state was the winner of the War? ((And what do you think they call them, American Vacations? They call them wars or for example in DR they call it the AMERICAN INVASION.))

More importantly...

Ask someone who lives in South Korea how they feel about Truman and Macarthur and who stopped the Chinese and North Koreans....

Ask someone who lives in Kuwait who won? and who kicked out Sadamn?

Ask someone who lives in Poland, Czech who won? and who got rid of the Russian Tanks and the KGB?

Ask someone who lives in Kosovo who won? and who stopped the genocide and Milošević?

Ask someone who lives in Dominican Republic, Panama who won? and who got rid of the dicator?

Based on my own friendships and travels, I am pretty confident of the answer for South Korea, Czech Republic, Domincan Republic, and Panama.

Again, I am not a fan of war or the current policies... but you got to call a spade a spade.... The US won a few and lost a few.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:34 pm

BalvinSlice wrote:
Ask someone who lives in South Korea how they feel about Truman and Macarthur and who stopped the Chinese and North Koreans....

MacArthur is still revered throughout most of Asia for ending the brutal Japanese occupations. Heck he's even liked in Japan for how Japan was treated and rebuilt after the war.

Truman... not so much. The use of nuclear weapons, warranted or not scarred his rep all over Asia.

President Eisenhower however gets the nod for me because he actually ended the Korean war and warned the American public about the growing and dangerous influence of the Military-Industrial Complex. That is, the relationship between the military and industry and the "business of war".

Ask someone who lives in Kuwait who won? and who kicked out Sadamn?

Kuwait is certainly grateful. Enough to be the only country in the region to host US Army bases outside of Iraq. The other countries involved in the 2 Gulf wars have since forced the US to close their Army bases.

Ask someone who lives in Poland, Czech who won? and who got rid of the Russian Tanks and the KGB?

Leck Walesa and the Solidarity movement get credit for Poland and Czech, not the US. What happened in Poland inspired the "Velvet Revolution" in Czechoslovakia.

Ask someone who lives in Kosovo who won? and who stopped the genocide and Milošević?

What happened there and the foot-dragging by all of Europe was a bloody embarrassment. If only there was oil there

Ask someone who lives in Dominican Republic, Panama who won? and who got rid of the dicator?

Now you're getting into the realm of the CIA and specifically George Bush Sr. Most of Central and South America today dislike the US because of the CIAs involvement in the backing of various dictators and strongmen over the years.

I'd also add that you'd have to go all the way back to Genghis Khan and the Mongol Horde to find a "nation" that never lost a war... or a battle for that matter.

Nice to see ya in off-topic. I still miss Ando btw.

Good times in Sembia & TPI,

Kate