Changing Rules that Discourage Play

[oldgrayrogue]

This was something I suggested in Rumple's "What will make you stay in ALFA2" thread. others picked up on it so I think it merits its own thread.

So, the basic idea is that rules that discourage game play should be removed or changed so as to foster more gameplay. The impetus for these rules in the first place was to prevent farming and/or to ensure balance, mostly I think so CvC between players would be more fair. I think our community is small enough now that farming and CvC are lesser concerns. At least I hope so. So here were my suggested rule changes, with a bit more discussions to back it up:

Changes to our ruleset and build that remove obstacles to gameplay:

1) Remove or drastically reduce the wait time for travel between servers. -- Seriously, is there any reason for this rule anymore? AFAIK it exists only to prevent farming and to avoid ruining the immersion of others. I'd rather have people to play with, personally.

2) allow for rest more times per day than once within 24 hours (how about every 8 IG hours? Seems more realistic to me?)-- the current wait time for rest (24 hours) is prohibitive, especially for low levels. As a perfect example, last night I had a chance to RP with a group to do a static (Yeah what we are supposed to be doing!) but I could not wait over an hour for them to rest so I logged off. Now, some might say we should have just RP'd "resting" with some tavern chat about our adventures. True, but its rare to get so many in game at once to go out and play together and it sucked having to wait around idle. A rest every 8 hours is preferable. At 13 min a game hour that is every 1.73 RL hours. Basically you get to rest twice in most sessions instead of once. A DM could of course restrict this for a plot if need be, but why discourage play?

3) remove the 30 day wait rule for DMs or players rolling a new PC -- BB addressed this well in other thread. It is nothing more than an obstacle to people logging in and playing. Concerns over metagaming are overblown. By this time most of us playing in ALFA have been a DM or an Admin at some point. We know lots of meta stuff about other PC and frankly I don't see anyone acting on it.

4) Lower the price of consumables OR increase the rewards from static content -- 50 gp for CLW and 150 - 300GP for most other useful potions is prohibitive to anything but tavern play at low levels. If you are not a caster, the typical quest will yield negative returns in terms of treasure if you are forced to use even one potion. Why would anyone continue adventuring? If you want to leave the prices as is, then raise loot drops and quest rewards to make consumables more affordable and adventuring profitable -- or roll a cleric, then this problem does not pertain to you =P

5) loosen up wealth restrictions -- does anyone really care? Is there any purpose to our wealth standards beyond CvC balance? I know low wealth is "hardcore" but if it ends up being too hardcore for anyone to make the effort to log in and play then what's the point?

6) Do away with all "travel maps" to improve immersion and eliminate clunky game play -- this is my personal pet peeve. When the TSM map was made it was a necessity. I don't think it is any longer. It remains buggy on both TSM and BG and wrecks immersion. The WHL map also ruins immersion for me totally. The only "travel map" we really need is on MS bc we have to travel between islands somehow. That said, the "random encounter" system on the TSM travel map is awesome and is something I would love to see incorporated on to all server areas if possible. The chance of a random encounter at all times is awesome and will make the servers more dynamic, immersive and realistic.

7) Add more monster spawns to areas farther from civilization of increasing difficulty the more remote you go to give high levels someplace to adventure -- more stuff to do is good. AFAIK adding mob spawn points to areas is easier than writing complicated statics.

add tons of very difficult spawns to our Underdark areas for high level adventuring. -- see 7 above. The UD is supposed to be very deadly.

9) Add working armor, weapon and hair customizers to all live servers. -- another pet peeve. TSM has no weapon customizer (AFAIK) and the armor and weapon customizers on MS do not work at present.

10) Remove the No DM where you play rule. This is Swift's suggestion from the other thread. I am fine with it. The only thing I would add is we should have a rule that you cannot DM your own faction. So, for example a player member of Sword's Edge cannot DM that group and still have a PC in Sword's Edge. I don't think any DM would ever do that, but you never know.

Discuss . . . .

[HEEGZ]

1. already underway. there have been no naysayers, and i expect a reduction in timer down to 1 real life hour to happen sooner, than later.

2. i have no idea what this looks like to change from a tech point of view. i wish we would speed up our game to the previous rate, a change that is pretty easy i think.

3. i have never liked this rule. it is somewhat flexible, but i have been told in the recent past i had to wait the full 30 days. i think 7-10 days is more than enough, if anything.

4. i dont have an issue with any of this as it is presently found in game. i like how it works at the moment.

5. we were really proactive with wealth control last year and there are not very many wealth issues that i am aware of right now. the biggest lack of wealth at the moment is due to not enough people DMing.

6. i dont see this changing unfortunately. TSM will not be updated and neither will WHL. the maps are integral to the servers and no one capable and willing to make the change here.

7. this is currently happening on BG via infestations.

8. i did some things just now to alleviate this. i could probably do more later.

9. curm has the weapon scripts for TSM, not sure if it will get added. i don't think any of the HDMs would care about an OOC trip to BG OOC area to customize a PC. i would be happy to handle validations for this if it is that important.

10. i also agree with this one 100%. if a DM cheats, give them a strike or ban. we are too small a gaming community to have such barriers now, but I think this is a minority view so...

[Xanthea]

I have no idea what the actual effect on play is, but wealth standards really bug me. I have no problem with perhaps a list of recommended rewards for challenges suitable for each level, but the entire concept of PCs having a "target" amount of wealth is ludicrous and antithetical to the entire concept of a roleplaying game. People who do more dangerous things should be vastly more wealthier than people who do not, or dead. Nobody deserves a certain amount of money just for having been around a certain amount of time and the whole "balance" argument is ridiculous on a server where both level 1 and 20 PCs exist.

Consumables being cheaper would be nice too, they are ridiculously overpriced for their actual effects.

Other than that I don't really care either way about most of the suggestions. They sound fine to me, I guess?

[Adanu]

Overpricing is simply indicative of low wealth payouts on average. This can be fixed with better wealth payouts by DMs.

[Zelknolf]

Some of these things are policy changes. You can grump at the policy people about those or try to replace them in an election. Some points in there that I'm pretty sure you'd have to unseat Castano to get.


Some of these things are code and build changes. There's no grand conspiracy keeping the hairdressers out of TSM, and no terrible plot that's keeping modules from implementing drop adjustments in more places (probably of note that the wealth guidelines say people should be much wealthier than they are; it's largely failing because most places are still relying on DMs to correct for the enormous error created by the modules' static content-- but DMs are good for making story, not enforcing policy)

The reality of circumstance is that it's hard work to make tangible changes to stuff in ALFA or out, and all of the chatter of idea men sounds the same to the person who works. Ideas are fine, but really you've got two options when you want a thing done: you can do it yourself, or you can provide something to a person who can do it for you. Asking nicely works for a little bit, because all great apes-- humans included-- come with a hardwired sense of an economy of favors that only works if you prime the pump a little bit, but then you're in the second group and get to either give back or make enemies.

I'm sure you're sick of hearing it still, but as always, I argue that the best way to improve circumstances is to find the change you can make and then make it. You won't get everything, but you'll get more than you do out of forum posts.

[FoamBats4All]

1. Eh.

2. Once every 16 or so hours would work for me. Then again, we rest rather quickly. Doesn't take long to rest, and being able to rest every 1:40:00 seems a -tad- fast. That's resting more than once for most sessions.

3. I see no reason to remove this.

4. We run on a platform of moderated wealth. We did improve drops, but maybe it should be tweaked some more.

5. No reason to change these. We'd just see the Ronan crew be even more beyond cutoff wealth while non-DMed folk remain poor.

6. Are you going to build the new areas? And, uh, BG doesn't have a travel map.

7. Eh.

8. UD is also supposed to be vast, sprawling, and 99% empty. Having a beholder around every corner sounds silly. I'd much rather see all UD areas gutted and made accessible only on their own server. BG does not need to be 50% underdark, nor does it need to be 3 area transitions from the front doors of the city.

9. Get someone to do it. Nothing stopping this but a lack of workers. If only people spent 1/10th of the time in the toolset that they spent bitching on the forums.

10. No. Way. In. Fucking. Hell. Worst idea ever.

[Adanu]

If you want more weapons and stuff, start building in the toolset.

[Ronan]

... the whole "balance" argument is ridiculous on a server where both level 1 and 20 PCs exist.

Truth. If Shards proves viable, I believe I'll follow the DW model of inventory and gear.

Note that in active campaigns, consumables are definitely not underpriced. When you're getting ~1000 xp a week with only ~3 major combats, investing in consumables is usually not optional unless the combats are easy.

[oldgrayrogue]

OK, let me just say my post was in no way a bitch fest. Originally, it was a response to Rumple's thread asking for details on what needed to be done to make me stay in ALFA. Some people picked up on the policy change line so I reposted it here for discussion.

I'm also fairly sick of folks jumping on forum posts that I or others make with a do it yourself or STFU response. Every one of us here has contributed to ALFA over the years in their own way. For my part I've been an app reviewer, RA, Lead RA, PA and DM on TSM. I've even tried my hand at building and scripting, but other than making armors (which the modifiers have made obsolete) I suck at it. If ALFA doesn't want folks to discuss things on the forums then I recommend the IA or LA shut them down. If not, then a polite "no" or we don't have the resources for that would be sufficient.

If people post ideas for improvement, or changes, it does not mean they don't appreciate the hard work that has gone into making ALFA what it is. I think playing regularly in ALFA is probably the best way to show that appreciation.

[Ithildur]

Oy vei. One of the things about this place I definitely didn't miss was this stuff... can I start a 'What will keep you away from ALFA?' thread?

The OP is fine, regardless of whether every suggestion is a good one or not, there's no need to be nasty.

[Zelknolf]

See, there's the addition of words that I never actually said in that response. I didn't tell you to shut up; I'm not. That'd be absurd-- it wouldn't work, for one, and it wouldn't add anything to the discussion. But no matter how you feel or what work you did in the past, reality will not change for anyone's convenience. When tangible changes are required, someone must do them, and I think a significant portion of these posts' failure is that there's no plan to get the work done-- and I don't assume that you must become a master builder to get things done.

You can keep repainting that response as some bitter and cynical telloff-- but something to consider: I'm really good at getting things to change, and I can thus speak from a lot of experience about how to make stuff happen. I could also make bulleted lists of all the stuff that needs to change, but I don't make posts like this (any more) with reason. Grab the ones that are doable now-- those are the best targets because you can work on them while you're still excited and low resistance means it'll probably be popular-- and figure a plan: if not you, then who? And how will you convince them to put in the time? And then move on to the next-easiest target once it's done.

[Swift]

10. No. Way. In. Fucking. Hell. Worst idea ever.

The continuing plea for more DMs will continue to fall on mostly deaf ears when the choice is "play with my friends on a server I know" or "play with nobody on a server I don't like so I can DM my friends on the server I know" or "DM on a server I know nothing about with (potentially) very few players anyway." Few people enjoy just being a DM, but if becoming a DM means they basically have to give up playing, is it any wonder people don't take the plunge?

I must say, though, it really warms a veterans heart to see that after all this time, despite how we have dwindled, there still seems to be just as little trust in our players and DMs as there ever was.

[boombrakh]

[Post deleted by author]

[Heero]

6. i dont see this changing unfortunately. TSM will not be updated and neither will WHL. the maps are integral to the servers and no one capable and willing to make the change here.

I may be capable and willing in the case of WHL.

[Heero]

Ripping out the WHL OLM would be a PITA. I think itd be more immersion breaking, as well, simply on account of the server being built in such a manner that the AT from Dragonspar would take you to Boarskyr then to Soubar then to HillsEdge with nothing in between. Jumping between cities basically.

Id propose consolidating into a single OLM to facilitate quicker travel.

Ive just spent an hour wipping this up. Its pretty rough (becuase I spent under an hour) but could be tweaked to look better and could have the same random spawn system the WHL OLMs currently have. Furthermore, Ive already (years ago now) placed multiple 'complexes' of areas on the WHL server which are unlinked and Im sure not used ever. These could be made accessible off the travel map for use in Infestation spawning and adventuring.

What say you to this idea?