Open Comment Period: PrC Approval Process

[Castano]

1. PrCs will be exceptional PCs
2. A player may apply for a PrC by submitting a bio and other information about their planned progress towards a PrC or their past progress towards one
3. A player may apply for PrC at any time, even after their PC has been played for a while
4. Once approved they may level into the PrC as soon as they are able

Applications will be judged under the same criteria as exceptional PCs. (e.g. does the player have a grasp of the RP associated with such a PrC, do they understand its background etc.)

Goal: reduce burden on DMs for solo quests, reduce chances of PCs being left in limbo.

Comments, questions please?

[Ithildur]

I'm rather sympathetic towards making PrC's less painful than they turned out for me (3 TSM DMs one after the other dropping due to RL), but this seems a bit too uneventful? I would think at least some aspects of RP related to attaining the PrC should happen ingame; even non hardcore RP server's I've been on expect that much.

Written/forum content/rp ideally should supplement, not substitute for ingame RP...

[Rumple C]

I would also like to see background RP associated with it. Each prc is different, and I feel all should have some in game component (such as finding a weapons master to instruct you), or belonging to a mage circle for wizard stuff, or having to murder somone to become an ass-asin etc etc, belonging to an organisation for "shadow thief" etc.

PRCs should be rp'd as something special

[Stormbring3r]

Make it more rp focused but if the DM handling the PrC is unavailable they shoukd able to go ahead and level and do the rp over pm's if need be.. Seeing toons come into areas and pop level up through every area is a might trying on rp. I know we are suppossed to ignore that but its obvious and loud.. We need it more simplified and less work and stress on dms and players.

[Castano]

The original version had RP requirements and an approval of the journal/library posts of the player by a server HDM as required at the end of the process. I took it out over objections that some PrCs have very little to RP about while others have lots, hoping players would do that on their own. Are you guys saying you want that back?

[Rumple C]

yes.

If I see a pc that thinks they deserve a PRC, I want to know why they think it is so. How can they justify the special skill set beyond ... um I like the thing it can do when it disapears into thin air and I can kite monsters then hide, run away and repeat.

I want to hear all about the link the pc has to the * or whutever.

*

Shadow Realm
Beserker lodge
Sacred temple
Wise hermit
Book club
Fancy pants duelling master

[Adanu]

The Spellsword PrC is practically RPless since lore wise almost all Spellswords learn their thing on their own. I don't see much of a problem with this.

Make a DM quest at a DMs discretion I say.

[FoamBats4All]

I think that any legislation to lessen PrC requirements should take into account the diverse nature of Prestige Classes.

Can you make a rule that treats Duelist the same as Red Dragon Disciple the same as Harper Agent? Duelist is a fairly simple PrC, something more mechanical and build related than anything else. Red Dragon Disciple is something that should be decided upon at character creation, and should be part of an extraordinary background request. Harper Agent is something that should stem from roleplay (be it guided or organic), and have requirements befitting such.

You'd expect that Bladesinger should have stricter and stronger roleplay requirements than Eldritch Knight, for example.

Is there a way we can break down these PrCs into categories, and give rules based on that? Organization PrCs require X, MultiClass Assist PrCs require Y, Unique PrCs require Z? Or simply "Simple PrCs" (dualist, mystic theurge, eldritch knight, arcane trickster) require the forum post/approval by HDM/DMs, while "Advanced PrCs" (shadowdancer, harper agent, assassin, shadow thief, bladesinger) require something extra?

[Stormbring3r]

The only issue I see with posting the RP.. (Not against.. just saying) Is the Meta Knowledge that is possible to be contained on such a post.

Say I was playing an Evil Blackguard or some such.. I would have to RP out nefairious deeds and action in post about consorting with demons and such.. I would not want all of ALFA to know he was such. Make it a private forum for only say DM's associated with that PrC have available and then the player could PM everything to that DMa nd he post it. Or make it only available to HDM's and a select few DM's.

[Castano]

private journals take care of that issue. only the HDM reviewing it would see it.

[t-ice]

this seems a bit too uneventful? I would think at least some aspects of RP related to attaining the PrC should happen ingame; even non hardcore RP server's I've been on expect that much.

Written/forum content/rp ideally should supplement, not substitute for ingame RP...

Well they are minimal requirements for the worst case when DMage is not available. Nothing is preventing awesomesauce stories. Abilities of prc classes on the char sheet don't have to be accompanied by huge IC fanfare. Or the fanfare can come later, if there is DMage available. So relax on the story implications of a PC having, say weapon master ki damage. You don't go on a frenzy about what's the story behind a fighter's weapon specialization, either. Let it be a story hook for later, if there's the chance.

I think prcs have become too much of group roleplay hampering cancer. PrC efforts suck DM resources, and more importantly the focus of players, from multiplayer-oriented, setting-specific RP intiatives to navel gazing, me-and-my-pc -centric "how am I getting my prc when I need it". Looking at bio submission (which are very few lately by the way), the most common thing a player seems to think upon rolling a PC is "what prc am I going to shoot for". Unless this prc is a prominent IC faction in the setting/server the PC is going to, this is destructive of inclusive play that goes the common setting first. It empowers "every PC is an island", which is one of the biggest problems with ALFA right now and to me the biggest issue with DMing.

As tangentially related, I think PrC dipping and powerbuilding should be more requlated if access to prcs is not (right now the DM requirement aids in requlating powergaming). For example, after a prc has been attained rule that the PC must level at least every other level in it.

[Adanu]

It empowers "every PC is an island", which is one of the biggest problems with ALFA right now and to me the biggest issue with DMing

This isn't tabletop where your party is more or less trustworthy due to being together most of the time. Each PC in ALFA Is their own thing simply due to the nature of our world. We have dozens of players with dozens of PCs, and there is absolutely no way to be sure one person will be there or not next time. Each PC being an island is absolutely needed for there to be any semblance of fairness and progress.

[t-ice]

It empowers "every PC is an island", which is one of the biggest problems with ALFA right now and to me the biggest issue with DMing

This isn't tabletop where your party is more or less trustworthy due to being together most of the time. Each PC in ALFA Is their own thing simply due to the nature of our world. We have dozens of players with dozens of PCs, and there is absolutely no way to be sure one person will be there or not next time. Each PC being an island is absolutely needed for there to be any semblance of fairness and progress.

Let me rephrase it:
"Think what your PC can do for/in the setting (encompassing roughly your home server), not what the setting can do for your PC."
Yes every player/PC is separate, but they can all work with the same elements in the setting and immediately gain common ground. Or they can each look to their own character sheets and think how their own story is advanced by some faction mostly residing half a faerun away and how they need a DM for themselves to advance it. Most "prc quests" don't give much plot hooks for other PCs, or the setting in general, to attach interesting stuff to. Yet they are by far the most common player initiatives - what players presumably want. Makes trouble for DMing and playing together in general.

[Ithildur]

I'm actually not calling for a 'must have PrC quest'; simply saying there should be some RP ingame related to the PrC. i.e. a PC with xp to lvl up that meets the prereqs... never logs in for 2 months, but during that time he writes up whatever writeup... I don't think that's ideal. We want people to log in, do stuff ingame, not simply via forum posts or pms, which are supplementary means to RP.

Btw... I've seen awesome PrC quest plots run by Viigas and Ronan for what, 4 or 5 different PCs? all of them involved group oriented sessions where the PC going after the PrC needed the help of other PCs; I don't see (barring maybe a few cases like an assassin or blackguard on a server full of nothing but goodie PCs) why PrC quests need to be seen as 'exclusive' rather than great hooks/opportunities to involve other PCs.

[Adanu]

It empowers "every PC is an island", which is one of the biggest problems with ALFA right now and to me the biggest issue with DMing

This isn't tabletop where your party is more or less trustworthy due to being together most of the time. Each PC in ALFA Is their own thing simply due to the nature of our world. We have dozens of players with dozens of PCs, and there is absolutely no way to be sure one person will be there or not next time. Each PC being an island is absolutely needed for there to be any semblance of fairness and progress.

Let me rephrase it:
"Think what your PC can do for/in the setting (encompassing roughly your home server), not what the setting can do for your PC."
Yes every player/PC is separate, but they can all work with the same elements in the setting and immediately gain common ground. Or they can each look to their own character sheets and think how their own story is advanced by some faction mostly residing half a faerun away and how they need a DM for themselves to advance it. Most "prc quests" don't give much plot hooks for other PCs, or the setting in general, to attach interesting stuff to. Yet they are by far the most common player initiatives - what players presumably want. Makes trouble for DMing and playing together in general.

With Ith said.

Personally, I'm all for Zyrus' evolution into a Spellsword to include a group oriented DM quest.