Revolutionaries wanted.

[mother]

Looking to put a team together for a new server. Need uber talented builders, scripters, writers and Dms. I am looking to make a genuine elitist role play server that is as different as mother can make it. We will be hashing out and perfecting ideas before we submit the proposal. So, send me a pm and I will give you directions.

[Rumple C]

Hi,

I am somewhat interested as a DM and interior builder.

What is the scoop?

Rumple

*edit, Damnit this isn't a PM

[I-KP]

For ALFA? ALFA needs another server like it needs a hole in the head. There isn't enough active interest to keep the TSM, BG and MS moving, let alone WH, let alone Amn, and woe betide yet another. Creative efforts would be better spent consolidating and/or upgrading what we have now. Spreading ALFA's most valuable resource (active players) ever more thinly is not in the game's best interests; the 'build it and they we come' mantra stopped working a long while ago as far as NWN2 is concerned.

I suggest you wait until the results of the MS going OA for a month experiment are collated. If that generates a flood of new interest then maybe, maybe talk of new servers becomes a justifiable undertaking, but even so only after MS, WH and Amn pick up in activity first.

For an external project? Fill your boots why not. Best of luck, old bean!

[Rumple C]

I am of the opinion that a well known marquee server -could- attract more players (returning and new).

Shadowdale and the moonsea spring to mind.

[I-KP]

I am of the opinion that a well known marquee server -could- attract more players (returning and new).

Shadowdale and the moonsea spring to mind.

If evidence can be provided that indicates significant numbers will be attracted by having yet another server added to the already under-used roster then perhaps a proposal might be worth putting together. (Note: the reallocation of the currently available human resources would not be sufficient evidence of potential new interest IMO.) If no evidence can be supplied, and once again all faith is being put into the 'build it and they will come' mantra, then there is no sound basis upon which to undertake work that will only serve to damage ALFA's already dwindling population density.

The current server to player activity ratio is not doing well here, and yet at least two new servers -- WH & Amn -- have been given the green light in an attempt to inject more life into the game. I would suggest that creative enthusiasm be channelled into backing these two projects before anyone considers adding a third new server, particularly when the jury is still out on whether new servers are enough to draw in new, or even lapsed, blood.

[Rumple C]

I respect your opinion IKP, you could very well be right. We'll see what does (or doesn't) come out of this idea.

[mother]

Not to put too fine a point on it; interest is activity. It is better to have interest than none. I don't give a toss about the state of the other servers if i am being honest. Whether or not they are building something worthwhile or whether they can attract and keep an exceptional player base has nothing to do with me.

What does concern me is the elite status of this place that was always its foundational credo has started to erode. Free xp and phat loot for the lollipop kids was never the intention. I am also concerned that the ingenious creative force that made ALFA a place that myself and many others still checked on 10-12 years into it (due to the fact that it was a high water mark for the D&D community that we love) has suffered a substitution it seems. Instead of focusing on the things that would keep the community rolling ahead and the creative juices flowing, someone has decided that bureaucracy, red tape, systems, rules, parameters and insufferable egalitarianism was the way to go.

Do some bottom line thinking here.

Who are the chief demographic for an online world based on the Forgotten Realms with live DM's and a world that you can affect? It isn't the FotM fanboys, nor is it the WoW raiders. The chief demographic are those who find those experiences hollow, who want a community that challenges them with people that they enjoy. Focus on that bottom line and you draw players who are loyal and consistent. The age of the platform does not matter and neither does its unavailability. Anyone can download it in an hour, if they had no other choice.

Now, the over-focus on the system has always been ALFA's Achilles heel. For some, that is more fun than the game. Unfortunately them ain't players and players is what you be lackin'. Therefore, you must change or die.

[Zelknolf]

To the point on adding things to draw in players: existing evidence implies that adding shiny new things to a world attracts players, and movitates existing players to play more, for somewhere between 20 and 40 days. While this does often provide fodder to those in the 'build it and they will come' mantra (because they will, at least for a bit), it indeed is not a long-term strategy for the survival of a game world (unless that strategy is constant development-- that seems to work, at least for as long as you can make the fancy new toys visible and attractive, and keep them coming in quick succession).

To the grumpy rhetoric: we have seen the exact opposite response in activity and retentions whenever changing our policies toward the more restrictive and more elitist. We typically have to recover after a severe-enough change in that direction. We do recover, mind you, but the numbers are unambiguous: you only mitigate the damage dealt by making yourself more elitist by also adding fancy new toys. More effective if those fancy new toys don't put space between players who would potentially play together.

I make no assertions on the quality of these measured people, their contributions to the game, or the quality of the game and/or its capacity to fulfill its purpose-- but as strategies for population control, we already know that this won't be very effective.

[mother]

Not to be offensive but looking around, it doesn't seem that the opposite has worked either. You will never have masses of players and lowering standards to attract the dregs leaves you with an entitled remnant. By elitist I mean expecting quality of environment, storyline, Dm involvement etc, to be far above normal, extraordinary even. Then you expect the players to rise to the occasion and also demonstrate elite characteristics. To dumb things down to appeal to the bottom feeder while simultaneously making everything more complicated and rules heavy seems to me to be a recipe for shit. I am not a fan of shit as a rule. I prefer shinola.

[I-KP]

You’ll get no argument from me about the amount of red tape that surrounds this project, sometimes it feels more like a Lawyer simulator than a Dungeons & Dragons game, but you’re in here canvassing for people to help you build a new server, not to submit your candidacy for the position of project lead. Frankly, until you do run for project lead, and get the post, you’ll have to submit to the way that things are done and work within those creative boundaries or trot on. Strutting back in here after donkey’s years in self-imposed ALFAn exile and declaring that ALFA has got it all wrong -- and to some degree I agree with you, but that’s entirely beside the point -- that your way is the only way and be damned with the effort that others have invested, and are continuing to invest, isn’t the most effective way of getting your message across. Case in point…

I don't give a toss about the state of the other servers if i am being honest. Whether or not they are building something worthwhile or whether they can attract and keep an exceptional player base has nothing to do with me.

Essentially, what you’re saying here is that you want to build a server and you don’t care how it will impact upon the rest of ALFA as long as your own project is successful. Not the best way to sell your idea now is it.

If you have ideas on how ALFA needs to improved why not present your vision here, clearly and without hyperbole, drop the backhanded tactic of trying so sneak in change under the guise of a new server proposal, and then we can all perhaps have a nice grown up chat about it.

[mother]

Nothing backhanded here at all, just the opposite actually. I am a man with no guile. There is a lot that is wrong and much of it is what has caused this place to lose talented builders, DMs and players needlessly. But I am not looking to be a project lead, nor am I trying to lessen the contributions that added to something we all love. It's the rest that I do not subscribe to. I am letting people know, particularly lonely lurkers who really want to get in on something but whose ass puckers at the current state of things that we want to do things in a different vein.

[I-KP]

Nothing backhanded here at all, just the opposite actually. I am a man with no guile. There is a lot that is wrong and much of it is what has caused this place to lose talented builders, DMs and players needlessly. But I am not looking to be a project lead, nor am I trying to lessen the contributions that added to something we all love. It's the rest that I do not subscribe to. I am letting people know, particularly lonely lurkers who really want to get in on something but whose ass puckers at the current state of things that we want to do things in a different vein.

Fairy muff; explain those differences, in detail. Let's see your plans for the brave new world and maybe then the powers that be will be charmed into handing over a thousand slaves (or at least one German and a few Finns maybe) to help you build it. The floor is yours...

[Ronan]

Consistent, predictable DMing coupled with stuff for players to do between sessions is what holds players. Lots of players. e.g., BG's consistent 14-20 player nights, or JLM's stints on TSM. The problem of course is that consistent DMing is damn hard. Drama and RL intervenes.

Motivating DMs to log in is easily as important as motivating players. If mother can do that, yay! If not, oh well.

I-KP is asserting a new server would create a negative externality in the form of reduced player densities. I don't believe an empty server is a bad thing at all - its empty. It might as well not even be there, though it could be used for campaign sessions now and then. The trouble comes when players get "stuck" on a server due to a stalled plot or the like (yay temp retirement). To put it in Coasian terms, for those who know what the hell I'm talking about, the evil is in the transaction costs of players and DMs meeting up. Eliminate those (they're pretty damn low already) and it doesn't matter how many servers you have.

[Heero]

I have an idea of places I would like to build, and I would like to be part of building a new server from the ground up.

Technical limitations of server hosting in the early days of the game, along with a steep learning curve of the NWN2 toolset seem to have lead to our current servers being built very sparse on the adventuring areas - wilderness, dungeons, caverns, forests, etc. - and high on the canon 'point of interest' that one would expect to see in on a sight-seeing tour. BG has some good adventure 'complexes' consisting of multiple areas, but these sorts of place are lacking, in general, in ALFA as I see it. Areas that might be dangerous tend to be a single, one-off area surrounded by a bunch of areas that are 'safe-zones'.

The congruence of the existing areas leaves something to be desired, as well. Areas can sometimes feel 'plopped in' with no account taken for the look and feel of existing areas. The beast of a toolset we have is probably the main culprit of this as, unlike the previous toolset, there is no plopping down a similar tileset square to achieve identical look to the texturing and flora placement. Builders building additions to the server are often left to figure out how to match textures of existing areas built by builders long gone, which can be a time consuming process, or to come up with their own texturing strategy which puts their areas out-of-sync with existing areas. Other things such as the server being mostly in a state of perpetual summer (fine by me, unrealistic to have 4 areas, 1 for each season, for every server area) with other portions of the summer in a state of winter.


Anyway, this is why I personally want to build a new server. Adding to the existing servers, which I think Ive done a good bit of building towards, especially recently, is fine and all, but I am not sure I have the nergy to go back and redo existing areas to make look better or more realistic, and I think - or know, rather - that I am bound to get pushback from people who will say rebuilding areas in unecessary. The reason Ive agreed to help this abrasive jerkwad who has just strutted back in to this place like we are a bunch of squatters squatting on some property of his he had forgot about until now is because I could use some help in building a server.

I dont know if yall remember, but I had dreams of building Sshamath at one point. I actually DID build the inital skeleton of a pretty ok looking city (might be screenshots still around somewhere on here), AND I built a whole horde of UD 'wilderness areas'. In fact, BG not long ago got updated with 20 or so new UD areas I had built for this Sshamath project. I have at least 20 more built than need finalized (touchups, mainly), which is on my list of things to do for the TSM server at some point. When I tried soliciting for assistance on this project do you know how many offers of help I got? Zero. I hate building interiors, hate it with a passion. I could use some help.

If this recently returned especially special jerkwad of a nerd has a vision matching mine in regards to the building of something new and interesting, I am set on helping out. I dont really share his vigor in reshaping the face of ALFA; rather, I just want an outlet to let my creativity (what creativity I have (Hint: very little)) out. Let the negotiations on what we are to build begin; I hope a consensus can be reached else I shall [Kobe Bryant]Take me talents to South Beach*[/Kobe]**.

Thats all.

* South Beach being the TSM server with Curm-dawg.
**Kobe reference sepcifically for Burt.

[I-KP]

I-KP is asserting a new server would create a negative externality in the form of reduced player densities. I don't believe an empty server is a bad thing at all - its empty. It might as well not even be there, though it could be used for campaign sessions now and then.

More specifically, I'm indicating that diluting a player base across numerous servers is absolutely the wrong action to be taking when active player numbers are on the decline; interactivity is key so all effort should be taken to improve that, not harm it further still. I’m no NWN2 PW whore but every game that I have played in has combated a lack of player density by consolidating, not expanding; having played in ALFA for a few years I now have experience of the flipside to that action. To be honest I much, much prefer playing in two hubs with 20-odd regulars on each rather than on five (or more - ALFA has many, many more than five hubs) with a largely nomadic player base.

As much as it would pain me, because I call MS home, I believe that ALFA would be a far more interactive experience, given the number of active players and DMs that we now have, if TSM and BG where the only live servers and all other suitable locations where consolidated into one ‘session server*’.

* DM’d only that hosts a number of disparate regions, or chains of regions, that represent various other areas dotted throughout the gaming world. Players would not be allowed to travel to such a server on a whim, it’s DM port/plot only; finish the session and you’re sent back to a live server hub (or left over given agreed, special plot-related circumstances).