Player looting

[Lokan]

I think (totally opinion) the biggest POSSIBLE source of "drama", possible meta-gaming, and questionable CvC stems from the idea that other player's gear are the biggest source of riches in ALFA.

It can sometimes bring even the best, most rule abiding players into question, and is entirely too difficult to prove when a player does break rules (which I honestly have not seen, personally).

With the absence of a player loot system, I would suggest to just turn off player looting. Or if its not too technically challenging make it so only DMs can loot and place items in Pchests to be redistributed some how later. Or the dead player just drops an equivalent percentage of their total worth in gold. Heck I'd even like a hard core ruling like: when you die, you loose your stuff, even if resurrected. An OOC approach perhaps, but it is a lasting effect of a major event.

But how do I get resurrected without any gear to sell? maybe we should all have friends and make sure those friends have enough coin to bring us back. Will our friends betray us and keep it? yep, maybe.

Of course, this all must have been argued before, but I think there should be a discussion (hopefully civil) again.

[Blindhamsterman]

what about the interesting items with interesting stories that could be completely lost?

Should my toon die... id feel REALLY unhappy to know that the sword he spent a lot of time creating, with interesting writeup and potential story around it... could just vanish. I've actually seen that exact thing happen before and... it sucks. It's also silly to imagine that the stuff the PC had on them cannot be picked up. I'd be even more annoyed if I opted for an IC rez (which this toon wouldn't but for the example, keep with me) and said sword was just 'gone' which makes no sense for that to happen especially if allies were about to recover the body. They could opt to keep it rather than using it for a rez, thats fine...

If a PC dies, there stuff should be dropped, really is that simple, they could keep stuff in a pchest if they like - which means that those things can't be looted.
Tbh, I actually think everything an NPC has on them... should be lootable too. Goblins drop rusty weapons etc, an orc might drop leather armour and a greataxe etc, but i can see why it won't happen with NPCs (farming of spawn fear).

p.s. the lasting effect of being brought back from the dead should be an IC RP thing (plus the lost of a level.. which is a big deal at higher levels). I've seen some get rezzed and not seem like it happened within a couple days without others reminding them, I've seen other PCs that did a fantastic job of showing the changes brought about on them because of being brought back.

[johnlewismcleod]

PC gear needs to be loot-able for realism. PC's that loot can expect consequences if the looting is crudely done....i.e. armour, shields, swords, etc. These type items cannot be "palmed" and are easily visible by NPC's and other PC's.

A good thing for PC's to do is rename their gear. If another PC loots it, they should not be able to change the name unless a DM mitigates the disguising of the item.

If a DM is on and see's a PC carrying another PC's armour, shield, etc it might be appropriate for said DM to have spot checks and it could well become clear to the interested PC's in the area that someone is carrying missing PC gear.

Another viable and realistic management technique is to use the parser to track where and when stolen gear is sold. If a PC simply approaches a merchant with another PC's remarkable gear and sells it without DM mitigation, I would think any DM that parsed the transaction is entitled to do some rolls and see if the NPC recognized the source of the gear. With well established PC's and highly visible items the chance might be fairly high

Theft is a big part of the game and should be supported...and so should consequences for said behavior

edit:

Casual looting is a long standing NWN staple on most non-rp intensive servers, I think. When noticed it might be helpful for the DM to ask the player if he/she thought about what they were doing before they snatched up said loot and give the PC a chance to re-play the action if it was the result of automatic "twitch" behaviour.

[Lokan]

Ok, so it really only took a couple of people (whom I very much respect) to change my mind. But, still, am I the only one that has that sense that sometimes there is an atmosphere that others are just waiting to pounce on the next dead player goldmine? I guess I haven't personally actually seen it, so I am more asking if there are others feel the same?

[Tegid]

I'll just say this.. I found it a tad bothersome when I lost a beloved character to a hostile NPC robber ("Gimme yer gold...") who left my character's loot alone after slaying me. Pretty OOC there, no continuity. That robber earned my gear but left it lay.

And it bugs me further to get Tells that inquire of my PC's demise and whereabouts; "Where?? Uh, we'll give a proper burial". Yeah, I bet you will. I would have preferred a Tell inviting me to party up or at least for some social RP, seeing as how we were in the same "faction" and all.

Good topic though. I personally would like to see things wired in such a way that makes beasties and brigands loot slain characters. Or port gear into an OOC DM chest, to be distributed later. (Example: Goblins kill adventurer... PC gear ends up in goblin shaman's chest/inventory deeper in the cave or whatever)

[johnlewismcleod]

Oh, yes...I agree completely that it is a problem, Lokan. Many PC's loot without giving thought to what they are doing. It insults the memory of the fallen PC, and should have consequences to the PC that does the looting.

I'm just saying that looting itself is part of the game and that we as DM's need to "make it real" whenever possible. Alignment points, arrest and prosecution, illumination of gear carried when unconcealed in the company of other PC's, etc are all tools at our disposal.

[johnlewismcleod]

I'll just say this.. I found it a tad bothersome when I lost a beloved character to a hostile NPC robber ("Gimme yer gold...") who left my character's loot alone after slaying me. Pretty OOC there, no continuity. That robber earned my gear but left it lay.

This is a scrpiting issue that would likely require some serious effort by a volunteer. If anyone is willing, I know we all will be very thankful.

And it bugs me further to get Tells that inquire of my PC's demise and whereabouts; "Where?? Uh, we'll give a proper burial". Yeah, I bet you will. I would have preferred a Tell inviting me to party up or at least for some social RP, seeing as how we were in the same "faction" and all.

This is a metagaming violation that will be prosecuted when found out. If anyone is doing this I encourage them to stop immediately and NEVER do it again.

[Mick]

And it bugs me further to get Tells that inquire of my PC's demise and whereabouts; "Where?? Uh, we'll give a proper burial".

There are many tells that are appropriate for facilitating RP of one form or another. This is not one of them. Information regarding the whereabouts of a body might be should neither be requested nor given in tells, PMs or on IRC. Facts must be gained ICly. Acting on information gained in any other fashion is metagaming and is illegal. Period.

[Keryn]

I'll just say this.. I found it a tad bothersome when I lost a beloved character to a hostile NPC robber ("Gimme yer gold...") who left my character's loot alone after slaying me. Pretty OOC there, no continuity. That robber earned my gear but left it lay.

And it bugs me further to get Tells that inquire of my PC's demise and whereabouts; "Where?? Uh, we'll give a proper burial". Yeah, I bet you will. I would have preferred a Tell inviting me to party up or at least for some social RP, seeing as how we were in the same "faction" and all.

Good topic though. I personally would like to see things wired in such a way that makes beasties and brigands loot slain characters. Or port gear into an OOC DM chest, to be distributed later. (Example: Goblins kill adventurer... PC gear ends up in goblin shaman's chest/inventory deeper in the cave or whatever)

NPCs do loot and when DMs see corpses where NPCs would pass, they usually colect the corpse.

Regarding the whereabouts of the corpse.. like JLM said, its cheating and you should report such action to the admin without feeling bad for it. People doing it are cheating the whole community and themselves...

[CloudDancing]

My pet peeve:


TWICE! TWICE!

Someone looted a PC IC naked by stealing their very nice armor.

1. Tiny woman PC looted the chain armor off a six foot eight inch PC (very tall for you metric people) in matter of 5 minutes between the time it took for us to reach her and the newly dead PC.

Dead PC presumably was now in his underpants. But we can't tell that because of the body is just a body. IC we don't figure out till two days later even though IC it should have been evident and said female PC should have been throttled.

Also note tiny Female PC had a HUGE suit of armor somehow magically stuffed in her pack in less than ten minutes.

2. PC dies. PC reports accidentally where they died in IRC. Not soon after a Group of PCS suddenly take a walk in that area.

LATER PCs friend whom they owe a favor gets the naked body from Group back SANS Mithril Chain Shirt HIN-SIZED as well as other items missing.

Because said body is just a body, the friend could not tell and took the body was naked without naturally being suspicious. Was there a bluff roll? A sense motive? No.

Later this results in dead/newly raised PCs friends razing the Cloakwood for a goblin in a Hin Sized Mithril chain shirt that a DM reports is just not there.

[Burt]

And it bugs me further to get Tells that inquire of my PC's demise and whereabouts; "Where?? Uh, we'll give a proper burial".

That old chestnut.

[Swift]

More than a little looting of players can be put down to the fact that there are alot of people with very little wealth as well. DMs often use the XP tool to give players XP, but unless the players were successful in finding some treasure, generally do not get the recommended amount of gold to go along with that XP.

[johnlewismcleod]

A valid point, Swift...but it doesn't excuse cheating or mitigate IC consequences for IC behaviour.

I try to monitor wealth and I assume our other DM's try to as well. Our gameworld isn't perfect by any means, and it requires effort by all of us to make it better: DM's and players alike.

DM's must try to make rewards available and balance wealth, and players must resist the urge to loot thoughtlessly or cheat.

[NESchampion]

I think good points about RPing looting are already touched on (i.e. removing armor should be noted, specific weapons, etc.)

Metagaming the location of corpses should be reported and dealt with. I don't even like knowing when characters are dead because now there's a disincentive to adventure period or face accusations of hunting for dead characters for loot. I'd say talk to a DM, see if they feel a rumor is appropriate along the lines of "character X was seen going into the woods". They could even turn it into an encounter and have a story built off it.

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As for the main subject, I don't feel changing looting will change the situation overmuch. Are PC corpses large potential sources of wealth? Sure. That's not a bad thing; it just stands out because a seventh level PC might have over 13k in wealth on their corpse, while the CR 7 Hill Giant that killed them has nothing or next to nothing (whereas in PnP it would have 2,600 gp in treasure).

[Deviant]

Oh, yes...I agree completely that it is a problem, Lokan. Many PC's loot without giving thought to what they are doing. It insults the memory of the fallen PC, and should have consequences to the PC that does the looting.

I'm just saying that looting itself is part of the game and that we as DM's need to "make it real" whenever possible. Alignment points, arrest and prosecution, illumination of gear carried when unconcealed in the company of other PC's, etc are all tools at our disposal.

Will this apply to when PC's loot enemy NPC corpses?

I mean, if you get alignment shifts for looting a corpse of a person you havent had a hand in killing, praxis would say that there would be HUGE reprecussions for looting someone you actually DID kill.

And that'd probably lead to the imprisonment and evil turning of the entire adventure population in Faerun