A Land Far Away

There are probably many archived posts on this topic. But the problem of player retention has come up recently.

Key Points to Discuss:
*The problem of permadeath
*The problem with aloof and "lone wolf" characters
*The problem with "loose/needy" characters
*How Dms can include new characters and how EVERYONE needs to work just a little to be inclusive
*Wanting to be a bad ass NOW, when you should be working on being a bad ass later
*Events often are in play that YOU, the new character has no idea of
*New characters/players don't always know the rules
*The importance of a biography for your character
*The importance of communication


*The problem of permadeath

Permadeath is only a problem if you are used to video games and MMOs and it particularly stings due to the investment some make on their characters. Even the best players you meet out there lost a PC to some stupid orc with a crossbow. To loose a character and start over is a key component of D&D. But its also frustrating to start again. Everyone knows that and does care, BUT the message here and has always been "you need friends, friends and companions will keep you alive." If you don't seek out the classic D&D party your character has a very slim chance of success.

*The problem with aloof and "lone wolf" characters

Which brings me to a character who does not get along well with others. Possibly you are aloof type person in real life. Aloofness is basically the most passive way one can get attention. It is supposed to provoke curiosity in others to see who is that dark person lingering in the back of the Tavern studded with weapons? Usually it results in "lets avoid that dark person in the corner at the tavern studded with weapons." Unless of course someone wants to hire you.

But I digress you want to be picked up by friends or make new friends your character needs SOME sort of extroverted manner of reaching out to others that is'nt murdering people wantonly. But being an aloof lone wolf is a low survival character at low levels. Thus if you want to END up a moody scarred Ranger, you need to start out a happy idealistic goal oriented teenage ranger and work your way up to disturbed and leathery over your game play.

*The problem with "loose/needy" characters

I personally think there is a place for loose needy type characters. Using ones abilities of opportunism and degradation to get what one needs to survive is a way to build on a character. There are a few things that bleed over to problematic; constantly asking for things, feeling the only way to relate to other characters, npcs, and problem is to attempt to seduce them, and the IC/OC results of playing a loose grabby character.

I've read and know what it is to feel extremely conflicted by this game play. It has two major flaws. One being that playing a loose character often bleeds over into IC and OC teasing. And people find themselves surprisingly hurt and even enraged or in game events and out of game events. It also bleeds over to the expectation this character is a whore and can be propositioned as thus.

The other aspect is learning to transcend that phase in a characters life. At some point your character will become self-sufficient. Very few people in the sex trade plan to spend their whole life in the trade unless it happens to be their religion. Any type of ingame event can serve to be a life changing event that shapes the character into a new level of competence.

(BTW no PLAYER should feel sexually harassed and we have an elaborate system created by a lawyer well aware of gender issues to see the player gets their needs heard. Do not hesitate to report something that makes you want to quit Dm or Player. We need to know if a member is running off players. Please!)

*How Dms can include new characters and how EVERYONE needs to work just a little to be inclusive
1.Ports: Find away to port them to a new adventure the first time you see them
2.Say Hello: When you a new PC, say hi, ask them how they are doing?
3.Give them something nice: Ask them if they needed something the start merchant didn't sell? A religious shield? A special type of weapon? A pretty dress or tunic? A hat?
4. Ask about the character they plan to play and direct them to an age appropriate destination.

Players:
1.Stop being a moody battle-scarred grump and pretend you are interested who they are. Maybe it will distract you from loosing all your loved ones.
2. Hire a henchman: Find some reedy looking teenager to carry your armor around and mentors. Growl horrible advice at him and make him sleep under the bed at the Inn to toughen him/her up.
3. Ask how the road is ahead/behind you
4. Send tells to new characters where the big action is or where everyone is milling about having a beer.
5. Catch new players up on all the gossip. Being drunk helps.
6. Sell them something they might need.
7. This mail bag is heavy! Help me out?

*Wanting to be a bad ass NOW, when you should be working on being a bad ass later
If you want to be bad ass, you have to work TO become bad ass. A character at low levels is basically a person just starting out on the long road to fame and fortune. Start out with some goals, a driving motivation, and a background the build your character's life from in-game events. The belief a character is already King Conan at level 2 is what causes deaths via killer chickens and pigs.

Instead sell yourself as needing a teacher or a mentor or a trainer. THAT person is going to be the one that saves your ass, heals you up, and teaches you to fight. I can't think of a good fantasy story where there was not a teacher involved in the hero's journey. You can also become some evil guys minons until he croaks and you can take over his empire (and loot him.)

*Events often are in play that YOU, the new character has no idea of

New players, don't feel you are being ignored. Sometimes you will log into the middle of a HUGE event months in the making. You might be left out. It happened to me the second week I tried Alfa. People might be yammering on about some dead person and very depressed or jubilant over a victory.
Feign interest, ask them what they are talking about, and introduce yourself.

*New characters/players don't always know the rules

Not knowing the rules can marginalize new players. One, they will go and do foolish things and deal with early warnings. Early warnings are not because anyone hates you. It shows Dms care enough to give you as much leeway as possible for learning not to exploit in game mechanics and so forth. Wow and other MMO's have nearly identical rules.

Two, when they see someone breaking the rules they are disempowered to report it by other players. NOTHING is worse for morale than telling someone who is upset or wronged that "the system doesn't work and all the Dms do that," when there is a PA and they take (specifically harassment issues) VERY seriously.

(And I think the presence of the PA system should be written out in bigger letters on the acceptance letter to the affect of:

"Gameplay in Alfa is +18 and the ESRB states that gameplay can be unpredictable due to the multiplayer nature of the game. IF however you feel harassed by any member in or out of game please contact the player administrator as soon as possible. We want your roleplay experience in Alfa to be fun and challenging.)

*The importance of communication
Make sure you are using the big three; forums, IRC, and in-game tells to speak with your dms.
Ideas are for IRC or forum PMS
Small requests for ingame help are for IRC and tells
IRC is not for begging the DM ten times a week where your new custom armor/weapon/toy is.
IRC is also a good way to get notice your favorite player is logging in and you can go join them.
I think people in Alfa find the time they spend connecting with people from around the world as much fun as playing D&D ingame. Making those outside connections with Dms and Players will help new players much more and people do want to know who you are and where you are from.

IMO the very simple key to fitting in as a new player in ALFA involves managing your expectations and having the patience to let things develop ICly. This goes for player to player interaction and DM'd play. Wanting to have it all immediately, in any new endeavor, is likely to lead to frustration and disappointment. Give ALFA enough of a chance and it won't disappoint you.

Spend some of your first few days IG just exploring the environs, like a visitor to any new land/city might. Regardless if your a gregarious type or a loner, your PC would probably take some time learning the lay of the land and those in it before heading out to hunt monsters in the vast unknown, plotting to rob the local merchant, or planning to save the princess. In this regard, I suggest starting your PC out in the largest City available on server as there is more to do and see there.

Also, I think you can play what you want to play, and how you want to play it, and still find plenty of game in ALFA. One tip I would offer is to try not to RP in terms of absolutes. Roleplay, like RL, often takes place in the "gray areas" -- not everything is black and white. Good people sometimes do bad things and even very evil people can know love. Have a core concept for your character but allow yourself to be as dynamic in their interactions with others as most people are in RL.

In addition, exploring different concepts, even if they don't last, can be fun and rewarding. Maybe you really want to play that very aggressive barbarian type. Go ahead, just understand that most of those guys end up dead young for a reason. Or maybe you want to play that secretive loner. Fine just understand that loners can spend a lot of time, well alone. These can still be fun concepts to roleplay, as long as you manage your expectations based on what it is you decide to play.

Lets face it we all log on to play with other people, so after a few months observing/asking i'll offer up a few pearls for players to take on board to make other players more welcome/fit in.

Veteran tip: You high lvls best realise (the events of the past few days may highlight it) that your list of equally high level chums is an ever shrinking one. So instead of ignoring/couldnt be bothered with/not trusting/hardballing new PC's or players to go talk about that secret plot with your shrinking list of alies, spend that time getting to know them/forming a friendship because next time you turn around you will most likely need their help on your next "epic quest".

Pro tip: Stop grinding, doing statics and idling alone. Use /tells to meet up with others, even if you "havent met them". Its the point we play this social game. Personal hate is logging in to see 13 players and the largest group size is 2. People already in groups RPing are easier to engage and get more DM time(at least from me).

MaxBogs wrote: Veteran tip: You high lvls best realise (the events of the past few days may highlight it) that your list of equally high level chums is an ever shrinking one. So instead of ignoring/couldnt be bothered with/not trusting/hardballing new PC's or players to go talk about that secret plot with your shrinking list of alies, spend that time getting to know them/forming a friendship because next time you turn around you will most likely need their help on your next "epic quest".

Where do you see something like this happening, in terms of people ignoring lower levels? If its in the case of a plot line where people want to keep it close knit, that's no reason to attack "high levels" over. And if its a case of high levels constantly ignoring lower levels, then it is also not a case of "high levels" needing to be attacked, but perhaps the situation needing to be addressed to avoid hostility.

agree with SSM tbh, I don't know any high levels that ignore low levels, I know characters of all levels (low included - many in Bogs own sessions in fact) that tend to be rather closed lipped about anything going on. I also know of a few groups that were formed with a specific level range given by a DM, once the numbers are filled, its not a case of asking more along without causing additional and usually unwanted work for the DM.

There is also the aside that a high level adventuring with low levels results in either:
1) the challange is so high that lowbies will have to hang back and not do a lot - not fun for them, and they get little to no exp for the effort!
2) the challange is so low that the high level is going to just wade through stuff, again less fun for the low levels. and again they get no exp for it.

Thats not to say groups of mixed levels can't work, in fact the group I'm in now ranges from 11 down to 3 (4 now), but usually DMs request level ranges for a reason (be that low level or high level)

MaxBogs wrote:Lets face it we all log on to play with other people, so after a few months observing/asking i'll offer up a few pearls for players to take on board to make other players more welcome/fit in.

Veteran tip: You high lvls best realise (the events of the past few days may highlight it) that your list of equally high level chums is an ever shrinking one. So instead of ignoring/couldnt be bothered with/not trusting/hardballing new PC's or players to go talk about that secret plot with your shrinking list of alies, spend that time getting to know them/forming a friendship because next time you turn around you will most likely need their help on your next "epic quest".

Deserves it's own thread if it is an issue, away from this thread, directed at how new players can make their way, which it could possibly be for some players.

I think the kickoff post comes from a good place, but I've seen a couple of different "survival tactics" related tips which I don't think are for everyone, whether here or previously elsewhere in forums, chat, etc.

Game with others, absolutely, otherwise you may as well be trying single player.

Assume that the "best" way to play is for someone who will have you as their "student" or caddy or target of healing or used gear sales or ... well, whatever. I don't know, I think that's not for everyone.

It's okay to get killed while staying true to a character concept, even if "hey stand in the back, way behind the REAL heroes" would've been a tactically more sound approach.

Brokenbone wrote:I think the kickoff post comes from a good place, but I've seen a couple of different "survival tactics" related tips which I don't think are for everyone, whether here or previously elsewhere in forums, chat, etc.

Game with others, absolutely, otherwise you may as well be trying single player.

Assume that the "best" way to play is for someone who will have you as their "student" or caddy or target of healing or used gear sales or ... well, whatever. I don't know, I think that's not for everyone.

It's okay to get killed while staying true to a character concept, even if "hey stand in the back, way behind the REAL heroes" would've been a tactically more sound approach.

+1

+1 to original post.

way too much negativity in most of the other comments.

I too am puzzled at the 2 person party on servers with 13 people on...there cannot possibly be that many antagonistic factions in ALFA..if we somehow have that many not gettign alogn together ICly groups, or worse OOCly, we need to talk as they say.


A few points; all you need to stop a line of RP is a tell telling the other player/DM you are not comfortable with the RP. We are supposed to be IC here, so don't assume every action of a PC is an OOC issue, the PC/NPC may just be an a**hole - the player/DM may be unaware of the OOC comfort level.

As for those members that disenfranchise players from utilizing the Player Admin to voice their concerns, please stop. If I find out it's happening expect a PA complaint about your behavior - this is analogous to telling a friend not to report a crime to the police because they do not care - in fewer words you are making yourself a big part of the problem.

[quote="SwordSaintMusashi]
Where do you see something like this happening, in terms of people ignoring lower levels? If its in the case of a plot line where people want to keep it close knit, that's no reason to attack "high levels" over. And if its a case of high levels constantly ignoring lower levels, then it is also not a case of "high levels" needing to be attacked, but perhaps the situation needing to be addressed to avoid hostility.[/quote]

Dont shoot the messanger I try and welcome/introduce myself to every new player i meet. Sometimes "welcoming" a player ive known for a while because i didnt check the player roster first and simply went off an unknown characters name. BUt make no mistake I have both been told of (by other players, new and old) and witnessed everything Ive said. Naming names and instances doesnt help improve the situation or add anything to the point.

If you feel something ive said doesnt apply to you, take it with a grain of salt

alternately, if you have names, why not PM each of them? See what they have to say? Could be they were indeed being rude/ignorant, or it could be that theres another side to any story you've been told (the latter is likely, there is always two sides to every story). Making such a loaded post, including all 'high levels' in it... is going to cause nothing but ill will as well.

Blindhamsterman wrote:alternately, if you have names, why not PM each of them? See what they have to say? Could be they were indeed being rude/ignorant, or it could be that theres another side to any story you've been told (the latter is likely, there is always two sides to every story). Making such a loaded post, including all 'high levels' in it... is going to cause nothing but ill will as well.

Because id rather not spend my time acting as rent-a-detective for a hobby? Nor did I lable any person rude or ignorant. I simply pointed out that after feedback from a few players perhaps some of the more "established characters" (I dare not say high lvls ) could make a tiny bit more effort helping new PC's fit in? After all these are probably the most suitable charactrers, and the people behind them, to word up that fresh adventurer, both IC and OOC; the post was directed at player retention

Like I said, if you dont feel what ive been told/seen is valid then take it with a grain of salt - there really isnt a need to get all offended over it, unless you have infact seen a new pc name on the player list and chosen to do your own thing instead of rping with that unknown - in that case the truth hurts? If, however, one 'established charcter' after reading this says, "wow I have never spoken to that PC before, maybe I should" then it has been worth spawning a few balors here

Personally, I've always been of the opinion that most (goody) high levels are a great help to DMs, and try to be inclusive where it makes IC sense and take backseats without moaning if the DM politely asks them to. There really is no "us vs. them". I can understand some envy (heck, I am envious of the awesome stories others get to experience while my character gets to do mail deliveries), but at the end of the day we should not antagonise people for sticking with a character and having fun and success with it. They add continuity and enjoyment to a server and its population usually - unless they're arseholes, but arseholery seems independant of level .

"Shadow owl" generalisations aired in the open at "some people" do not seem an overly constructive way of dealing with a perceived problem, as is undoubtedly noticed from the toes stepped on . If there indeed are people who try to hog the spotlight, are exclusive and confrontational without any good reason, then it is a problem that needs to be pursued and addressed via a proper channel. A broadside at unspecified people on the boards probably is not .

Cheers,

tl; dr.

Ronan wrote:tl; dr.

this.