Encouragement: It's an issue of trust

[boombrakh]

Good day people,

I would just like to talk to you today on the issue of trust. Back when I was the HDM of Waterdeep in NWN1 I got to see a lot of things that made me very suspicious of just about every player that logged on. There were periods where I spent more time trying to find flaws in players way of gaming instead of actually being a DM.

Now, for me that has changed and did so quite some time ago. But I still see it from time to time in other people and I've been subject to it myself lately. What I want to urge my fellow players and DM's alike, is that you start trusting your fellow ALFAn. We are all here because we enjoy the community and we enjoy roleplaying.

If you as a fellow member of this community don't understand the reason being the way another character acts, send the player a friendly non-confrontational message and usually that player will explain the reason. After all, talking about the character you are playing is a lot of fun and everyone hopefully likes the character they are playing.

There is a bit too much time spent looking for ways to "catch" players still going on, and I would just like to say to the people who spend their time with this to take it easy, relax and don't let it bother you. We will always have troublemakers now and again, but working tirelessly to find them when they aren't apparantly obvious will just burn you out.

This also takes me to the related sidetrack of "pre-emptive actions/regulations". Don't spend too much time trying to enforce issues that hasn't surfaced. There is no real benefit from working hard enough so you stop enjoying the game, just to make sure that we wont have any cheaters. Don't use the logs as bedtime reading.

Take the rule of 24 hours between server jumps for instance. IC it's there because of the time it takes to travel from point A to B and that's fine, there shouldn't be anyone who would have an issue with that reasoning. The problem is though, that it is just an IC rationalization of an percieved OOC problem.

I read a lot (relative) about so-called "DM farming" and I can't help but be a bit confused by the concept. DM's are what makes the current servers come to life and a great reason why this community is great. We have some amazing DM's here. But the fear of some players advancing faster than others or that wealth will get out of hand, has prompted a paranoid (biased) reaction where it is frowned upon to actually want to be a part of a DM event.

It gets worse, when you actually want to travel from the server you normally play on to do so. Try to not question your fellow members actions when they leave a server and partake in a DM event on another server. I am positive that they always have a good IC reason to do so, even if we don't know what it is. And like I wrote above, if you want to know, ask the player and I am sure that said player will answer.

In short, we need to stop being paranoid and suspicious of our fellow members, PC's and DM's alike. Relationships are built on trust, and we are all playing with eachother which means we forge relationships. Some of the relationships forged here in ALFA has led to marriage and deep friendships outside of confines of this community. The foundation of all relationships should always be trust and mutual understanding.

If you have a grudge with someone, send that person a Private Message and explain why you do and ask what can be done to fix it. It takes a lot more from a person to be angry or bitter, than it does being positive and glad. Don't waste your time being a sauerkraut.

Also: Make love, not war!


Peace.

[Galadorn]

Cheers Boom.

I will try my best to police my own actions much more to try and make sure I keep relationships as positive as possible. I believe I do that very same thing already, but, I feel a lot of arguments/issues arrise because of assumptions made about my own actual intentions... which leads to more discussion/argument almost always based upon further mistaken intentions and wrongful (or self serving?) assumptions. A vicious, and most times unavoidable, cycle between most people when communication is through a medium as anonymous as the internet.

So I send luv to you all as always. Yay us.

~Matt

[Swift]

Take the rule of 24 hours between server jumps for instance. IC it's there because of the time it takes to travel from point A to B and that's fine, there shouldn't be anyone who would have an issue with that reasoning. The problem is though, that it is just an IC rationalization of an percieved OOC problem.

Implemented because of the huge geographical distance between the three servers that we have. Back in the NWN1 days when you had clusters of servers that were all geographically close, it didn't matter, especially when walking the length of ALFA was a multi-hour proposition. When you can walk the entire length of ALFA in 10 minutes...yeah, that shit ain't right, hence the 24 hour layover on portalling.

I read a lot (relative) about so-called "DM farming" and I can't help but be a bit confused by the concept. DM's are what makes the current servers come to life and a great reason why this community is great. We have some amazing DM's here. But the fear of some players advancing faster than others or that wealth will get out of hand, has prompted a paranoid (biased) reaction where it is frowned upon to actually want to be a part of a DM event.

You want to hit all the DM events you want, that is fine, but a) dont expect any of the NPCs to actually care who you are, since your character contantly goes sailing to the other side of the world after you have completed a task and b) bake in your 24 hour stop overs. Yes, that makes travelling from MS to TSM (or the other way around) a 3 day trip, but so be it. Use the time constructively.

It gets worse, when you actually want to travel from the server you normally play on to do so. Try to not question your fellow members actions when they leave a server and partake in a DM event on another server. I am positive that they always have a good IC reason to do so, even if we don't know what it is. And like I wrote above, if you want to know, ask the player and I am sure that said player will answer.

Refer to my answer above. Why should the NPCs care enough or trust you enough to ask you to help out if you are around only so long as a DM is controlling them? I know some DMs get annoyed and some players get especially annoyed when a bunch of people drop in on a server for a specific session and then go spend the rest of their time elsewhere.

If your character is a wanderer or drifter, thats all cool, but don't expect DMs or NPCs to invest time in your characters if you are not willing to reciprocate.

When I was active as a DM (I am more a logged out, support EADM these days) I would always prefer to spend my time with characters that cared for the plots they were getting into, rather than the fly by nights who were more concerned with seeing as much DM time on as many of the servers as they could.

[boombrakh]

Hey there Swift

I didn't really post this as a debate or as a stab at anyone. I want to encourage positive thinking and attitude within the community. The post was inspired by events these past days and just got me thinking is all. The post isn't about me, it's about the situation in general. I just want to encourage people to be more open and trusting towards eachother and not let people get judged beforehand.

Implemented because of the huge geographical distance between the three servers that we have. Back in the NWN1 days when you had clusters of servers that were all geographically close, it didn't matter, especially when walking the length of ALFA was a multi-hour proposition. When you can walk the entire length of ALFA in 10 minutes...yeah, that sh*t ain't right, hence the 24 hour layover on portalling.

This goes against the information that I was given, but works well for me and I have no need to further discuss the issue if that is not the case. I have no issue with the 24 hour travelling restrictions, they make sense. I support them seeing as, just like you say, it isn't like it was in NWN1.

You want to hit all the DM events you want, that is fine, but a) dont expect any of the NPCs to actually care who you are, since your character contantly goes sailing to the other side of the world after you have completed a task and b) bake in your 24 hour stop overs. Yes, that makes travelling from MS to TSM (or the other way around) a 3 day trip, but so be it. Use the time constructively.

It really isn't about "hitting all the DM events" in my opinion. It is about getting something out of the game other than "going on another hunt" which in itself is viewed on with quite some suspicion. We are encouraged to play and interact, a DM event is the best place to do that because that is where people are. It is also a great interruption from the normal static world that never change in which players usually find themselves in. For immersion purposes, we all need interaction.

Refer to my answer above. Why should the NPCs care enough or trust you enough to ask you to help out if you are around only so long as a DM is controlling them? I know some DMs get annoyed and some players get especially annoyed when a bunch of people drop in on a server for a specific session and then go spend the rest of their time elsewhere.

ALFA time is ALFA time. Time flows a bit arbitrary in ALFA and why wouldn't that be represented here as well as in every other case? If we have a player who only plays once a week, will that player get treated the same way? What does that players character do the rest of the time? Has anyone even seen that character? Instead of punishing people for playing, we should actually encourage them. They play more, we get a more active community with more invested players.

When I was active as a DM (I am more a logged out, support EADM these days) I would always prefer to spend my time with characters that cared for the plots they were getting into, rather than the fly by nights who were more concerned with seeing as much DM time on as many of the servers as they could.

Understandable.

[NESchampion]

ALFA time is ALFA time. Time flows a bit arbitrary in ALFA and why wouldn't that be represented here as well as in every other case? If we have a player who only plays once a week, will that player get treated the same way? What does that players character do the rest of the time? Has anyone even seen that character? Instead of punishing people for playing, we should actually encourage them. They play more, we get a more active community with more invested players.

To an extent I agree. The issue I have with it is less about DM chasing and more about internal consistency amid the setting. It breaks the fourth wall a bit to have my character saving the world from evil mages in TSM while also slaying dragons in BG and fighting pirate kings in MS all at the same time. Ultimately it's up to the DMs how they want to handle such things though; for me as a player I feel it would compromise IC too much for my character to even leave the server during an ongoing plot, much less to also be taking part in quest strings elsewhere, so I just don't do it.

One-off adventures are something of a different story; but ongoing plots I think strain the importance we place on IC when you're involved in multiple plots in multiple far off locations at the same time.

---

Anyway, I do agree whole heartedly about trusting players, and for that matter DMs. I think by and large none of the DMs are out to get your character; they want to tell a story or help you tell a story.

[DarkHin]

First I'd like to preface my post by saying that the issue of DM "farming" needs to be brought into the open and respectfully discussed, simply because it has been fermenting in private chat, PMs, and in game. We should have our individual opinions heard and, as a community, come to a consensus before animosity and misunderstanding get the best of us. I would therefore like to take this opportunity, in this thread, to discuss the issue, since I'm sure its what prompted boom's post. I for my self have been reticent on this issue because I have a great deal of respect for boom as a member of the community and as a person.

I find for myself however that the server hoping to catch DM events is detrimental to verisimilitude, that suspension of disbelieve, which of course is essential to our enjoyment. I simply cannot reconcile, with verisimilitude, the travel of many months that your characters make weekly, with the intervening time between Trid's events, even with the liberties we take with time in ALFA. Moreover, and perhaps more importantly, because your characters are around only once a week and then gone, we, being the other players, don't have the opportunity to truly build relationships between our PCs and yours, with all the awesomeness that comes with that, i.e. camaraderie, conflict, ect. What is most important to ALFA though, is the quality of the server. This is determined not just by the build and the DMs, but the PCs of the players who play there: all three come together in defining the place, and it is this unique definition, or quality, which makes servers so awesome, when one does take the, what should in my opinion be rare and dangerous, opportunity, for whichever IC reason, to visit a server that's not ones home.

[mr duncan]

To an extent I agree. The issue I have with it is less about DM chasing and more about internal consistency amid the setting. It breaks the fourth wall a bit to have my character saving the world from evil mages in TSM while also slaying dragons in BG and fighting pirate kings in MS all at the same time. Ultimately it's up to the DMs how they want to handle such things though; for me as a player I feel it would compromise IC too much for my character to even leave the server during an ongoing plot, much less to also be taking part in quest strings elsewhere, so I just don't do it.

One-off adventures are something of a different story; but ongoing plots I think strain the importance we place on IC when you're involved in multiple plots in multiple far off locations at the same time.

Agreed. There has to be some balance. Travel is a good thing, but it should not be so casual. I really think the day wait should be more like five days or a week, and a lot more gold. The price is very low for a long sea voyage, I think it would be much better at something like a hundred gold to move between servers. If we did that then casual travel would stop and only the people who had reason to travel IC would be doing it

A lot of the travel is hopefully new characters wandering around looking for adventure where ever they find it, but those who survive grow up and should be settling in to stories or responsibilities that tie them down. A personal peeve of mine is seeing those people who should have roots in a place IC but are still drifting like tumbleweeds


J

[Blindhamsterman]

i agree with Mr D and NES completely

[Adanu]

To an extent I agree. The issue I have with it is less about DM chasing and more about internal consistency amid the setting. It breaks the fourth wall a bit to have my character saving the world from evil mages in TSM while also slaying dragons in BG and fighting pirate kings in MS all at the same time. Ultimately it's up to the DMs how they want to handle such things though; for me as a player I feel it would compromise IC too much for my character to even leave the server during an ongoing plot, much less to also be taking part in quest strings elsewhere, so I just don't do it.

One-off adventures are something of a different story; but ongoing plots I think strain the importance we place on IC when you're involved in multiple plots in multiple far off locations at the same time.

Agreed. There has to be some balance. Travel is a good thing, but it should not be so casual. I really think the day wait should be more like five days or a week, and a lot more gold. The price is very low for a long sea voyage, I think it would be much better at something like a hundred gold to move between servers. If we did that then casual travel would stop and only the people who had reason to travel IC would be doing it

A lot of the travel is hopefully new characters wandering around looking for adventure where ever they find it, but those who survive grow up and should be settling in to stories or responsibilities that tie them down. A personal peeve of mine is seeing those people who should have roots in a place IC but are still drifting like tumbleweeds


J

And if our PC is not the type to get bogged down by such? So long as you aren't trying to dictate my experience, you can have your opinion

[Brokenbone]

For those who want to wander, wander, and be vague about time and whatnot so that people aren't amazed you walked 1000 miles in a day.

For those who want to have a home base, apply today for your "Home Server" token which gives you +100% XP if earning on your home turf, -50% XP on anything other than your home turf, and 2gp for every 1xp you earn via the RPXP timer, to represent odd jobs you must be doing in order to survive.

Where does the smiley go on this one?

[dergon darkhelm]

Preface: This comes from a player that early in his ALFA career was labelled a ... *gasp* Server Hopper! I mostly stay put more now, but can see both sides.

I don't like the notion of putting exorbitantly high and "meta" costs on travel but generally agree with the notion of slowing down interserver travel a bit.

Were I the autocratic emperor of ALFA I would increase the 24 hr travel period to more like 4-5 days. But that's just me .....not a huge deal either way.

However, I have no problem with people seeking DM time for the sake of seeking DM time. I view server crossing to find DMs as a symptom of our well known chronic understaffing of DMs (beat dead horse here ) not as the problem itself.

At the end of all this I give it a big shrug. Doesn't bother me too much nor do I think anyhting needs abrupt change from the way we currently manage it.

[dirsa]

it's a line between realism and enjoyment. if player is sitting on an empty server, scratching his behind and seeing on gamespy 11 players in neighboring server - guess what? make it 12 and have fun, who cares it would have taken you a month worth of travel... call it a vacation, enjoy the evening, come back another day. it's fantasy world for crying out loud. we play in comic book time all the time. your dm controlled superior commands you to do something, and then 2 months later you finally both find time to rp out that task - well, guess what? unless we fudge the game time because of rl concerns you'd be fired! or set on fire...

now if there's a dm plot running on tsm tuesdays, bg thursdays and ms saturdays, and the same player manages to be an integral part of all three... yes, that's a problem, because in all reality he's breaking one pc rule and playing 3 different pcs, just with the same name...

[Mick]

For those who want to have a home base, apply today for your "Home Server" token which gives you +100% XP if earning on your home turf, -50% XP on anything other than your home turf, and 2gp for every 1xp you earn via the RPXP timer, to represent odd jobs you must be doing in order to survive.

I really like this notion. I think the adjustments BB suggests are a bit too large, but overall I love the idea of PCs benefitting from making a home somewhere. Perhaps a 20% swing (or whatever) would be better. Of course, it adds tech work.

Also, I agree with everything Mr. D said above.

[dirsa]

while mr. d sounds good in theory, his suggestions are countering each other.. raising cost of travel will not stop any established character to hop for dm events. cost will simply eliminate low level traveler, which, according to mr. d himself, would be ok for new players looking for home.

as for increased time limit? fine by me, but once again - the main thing that would eliminate is player looking for company, not organized, scheduled, routine server travel that has little to do with ic, which, if i understand this whole thread correctly, is the culprit we don't like...

[mr duncan]

while mr. d sounds good in theory, his suggestions are countering each other.. raising cost of travel will not stop any established character to hop for dm events. cost will simply eliminate low level traveler, which, according to mr. d himself, would be ok for new players looking for home.

I agree, while I do honestly think the wait time should be extended and should cost more. I do still think a noob shold get a chance to travel more in order to look for something to hook them as their character grows up

I am not sure how to balance letting a noob travel. Maybe do like the old Waterdeep system where we travel on boats by purchasing tickets and offer some free tickets to noobs? I am sure there is a way to give them a little leeway while still slowing down most people

Generally though I see server hopping being rewarded, so I guess you are right. Even with one hundred gold people would still make the trip if they expected the rewards to be more than what they pay for the ticket

as for increased time limit? fine by me, but once again - the main thing that would eliminate is player looking for company, not organized, scheduled, routine server travel that has little to do with ic, which, if i understand this whole thread correctly, is the culprit we don't like...

No, a wait of a week would mean you would have to miss your other games to have one DM event on a server. You go there and play, but have to stay there the rest of the week while the other weekly games on the other servers happen while you are visiting that server

We generally have weekly scheduled games, so a weeks wait before moving servers should handle it nicely

It would not stop all travel, but it would stop people from trying to rotate in to several games on different servers


J