Issue with Knockdown.

[Mick]

I am posting this in the general discussion forum because I have seen the bug posted in the TSM forum and it also seems to be happening on MS.

Knockdown has a 12 second cooldown period as a default in NWN2. Now, there is no basis for this in PnP (KD being an approximation of Trip, which carries no such limitation), but I do not particularly have a problem for the change.

The problem is that the cooldown period seems to be both arbitrary and crippling on our servers. I know we have had issues with the clock jumping to some degree, but this happens independent of the server clock bug I think. I have noticed on MS that the cooldown timer for the first time you use KD is appropriate at 12 seconds. Any subsequent use will set the timer at any of a number of durations. I have seen it range from 30 sec to 3 hours. I have even seen it jump about seemingly at random during the same cooldown period. After a while (regardless of how much time remains), the power becomes usable again. When that will happen is anybody's guess, though.

Anyone have any insight into this?

[JaydeMoon]

Knocking people down requires quite a bit of energy, and different people are better able to leverage themselves to avoid being knocked down. That is to say, they are harder to knock down, so you have to try harder. More exertion means longer cool down period.

Yes?

[Sandermann]

have not witnessed this myself, will try to replicate and see what I can find out.

[I-KP]

Not sure if this is the same thing but I've seen Companion summon cooldowns range from the expected 18 seconds to the not so expected 3 hours.

[Zelknolf]

Stuff you can do while knocked down in PnP that you can't do in NWN2:
1) Attack (@ -4; no penalty for crossbows)
1a) Trip your opponent
1b) Disarm your opponent
1c) Grapple your opponent
1d) Toss a mean alchemical doodad, like a tanglefoot bag or choking powder
1e) Feint (no penalty)
1f) Yank a piece of your opponent's gear off. +4 if it's dangly and easy to cut!
2) Cast a spell (with AoO; can't cast defensively while prone)
3) Move (5' move speed with AoO)
4) Distract or harass an opponent to give an ally a bonus to hit him (similar to flanking, but without all of that bothersome flanking)
5) Spend a move-equivalent action standing up (with AoO).

Stuff you can't do in PnP or NWN2:
1) Charge (can't charge if anything, like being prone, is hindering your movement)
2) Bull Rush (can't bull rush if anything, like being prone, is hindering your movement)

Stuff you can do in NWN2:
1) Spend a full round getting up (no AoO).


If the defense is "It's not PnP," I agree; it's so wretchedly more powerful than PnP that we should probably remove it entirely. But I guess people are happy with a cooldown.

[jmecha]

I maybe wrong, I am very hung over at the moment.....but I think Mick was expressing concern about the cool down timer being broken and ranging anywhere from 3 seconds to several hours......not complaining about knockdown having a timer, but merely offering that removing the 12 second timer might be an easy fix and or work around for the cool down timer being broken.

[Zelknolf]

Oooooh, I fail at reading.

Yeah, that comes from trying to use something before the cooldown is up. Don't trust the client and stop spamming it.

[Mick]

Yeah, that comes from trying to use something before the cooldown is up. Don't trust the client and stop spamming it.

Have not been spamming it that I recall. Last session I noticed this I tried to use it precisely twice. The first time gave me the normal 12 sec cooldown (with which, I again point out, I have no issue), but the second time the cooldown immediately went to three hours. I did not try to use it again. I may be misremembering, but I will test it when I get the chance to be certain.

[Zelknolf]

Hmm... well, my own testing with the cooldown bug gets it when the client's notion of whether or not the ability is ready for use conflicts with the server's notion of the same (or, in the case of the parade grounds outside of Silverymoon, if a script calls the use of a feat that is currently cooling down). That's pretty easy to do in this crazy world we live in where the best case scenario for communication through computers is at about 75% of the speed of light (and, in practice, is much slower at assembling useful information, and is very inconsistent about exactly how long it takes to do that).

It's nothing that we've scripted or built -- as far as ALFA's build says, knockdown needs 12 seconds between uses to work, and it's a bug that afflicts everything with a cooldown. I imagine we could assemble a workaround for it, but it wouldn't be as pretty from the user interface end?

[Thangorn]

I will lay the knockdown on you

[I-KP]

Yeah, that comes from trying to use something before the cooldown is up. Don't trust the client and stop spamming it.

Not IME. The cooldown timer fluctuates wildly (when it does spooge out, which isn't constant) without any additional interaction whatsoever but will eventually settle on 18 seconds (Summon) or three hours, with one of those being somewhat wide of correct. A friendly DM reset solves all (but I think that also restores any spent spells/powers which probably isn't ideal).

[Mick]

So, another variation of this noticed last night. I successfully used knockdown a number of times and the timer counted down appropriately. I was just beginning to think that either 1) the problem had fixed itself or 2) I was, in fact, crazy, when the knockdown cooldown timer went to three hours without me even using the feat.

I'm flummoxed. Since me noticing this corresponds to Veilan's election as Lead, I choose to blame him.

[Veilan]

I'm flummoxed. Since me noticing this corresponds to Veilan's election as Lead, I choose to blame him.

Crap, my sinister plot to confuse all knockdown timers has been revealed at last. Once I would have had those, it would only have been a matter of time til the election timers were under my control as well, and I would have staid in power forever!

But fine... I shall take full responsibility now, by firing some scapegoat from my Administration.

[Zelknolf]

Talking to Skywing about it, regardless. It's hideous when it happens, but I'm relatively sure it's not part of ALFA's build. I'm also having significantly more trouble reproducing the bug with the client extender, if any are not yet using it.

[DMyles]

KD was the shiz in nwn1 but it sucks in nwn2 just take something else