holy symbols

[hollyfant]

What is the status of the "holy symbol" item some classes get automagicly? In PnP they're required to cast some specific spells, but not so in ALFA. They have a script that allows praying for spells, but we have that in the PC Tools menu too. Plus as I recall druids get one, even though PnP druids don't need one.

Basicly a random selection of classes gets an item with apparently no other purpose than being sold asap. Sure, there's the roleplaying element of the iholy symbols, but nowhere in our rules does it say divine casters need one. People unfamiliar with PnP wouldn't know, and on some servers you can't even buy one.

So: holy symbols, what are they good for?

[dergon darkhelm]

Ahh --- here's a thread that could have been a 10 pager just 3 years ago.

But likely no more. I keep mine purely for RP. I renamed it "Old Sembian Coin" and now it just sits in my inventory.

We could junk 'em for all I am concerned. So long as we are all in agreement that there is no mechanics need for a symbol or focus.

[JaydeMoon]

Personally, I think Holy Symbols should be an equippable off hand item and that clerics can't cast without equipping.

Let the discussion commence!

[Veilan]

You are losing your trolling edge, you need to be even more subtle.

[hollyfant]

But... but... my god's symbol is a flaming sword of fire! I should get one of those instead.

[Veilan]

But... but... my god's symbol is a flaming sword of fire! I should get one of those instead.

Sure!

If you play 4E.

[Brokenbone]

Why, you hold the Holy Symbol in the hand of your shield arm which is surely equipped with only a buckler or a small shield, either of which would not prohibit the casting of anything with a somatic component.

*five foot steps away from thread*

[SwordSaintMusashi]

Where are you seeing that a cleric must cast their spells through their holy symbol?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm

The only thing that requires the holy symbol is for them to turn/rebuke undead, according to 3.5 clerics.

[hollyfant]

Where are you seeing that a cleric must cast their spells through their holy symbol?

Divine Focus (DF)
A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character’s faith.

A lot of clerical spells have the DF component as a requirement.

[SwordSaintMusashi]

Oh yeah, absolutely, Holly. I was more at Jayde's comment of requirement clerics to equip the holy symbol off-hand to cast spells. A focus doesn't need to be held, it just needs to be worn or on the person of the caster prominently.

[Brokenbone]

I think it was a JM joke. Possibly in part based less on divine focus, more on "anything you can do to get a caster to free up one hand for somatic spells." I might have read too much into it.

[JaydeMoon]

See, Veilan? I'm a badass. You called it and I STILL got someone!

Bow down!

[Zelknolf]

Oh yeah, absolutely, Holly. I was more at Jayde's comment of requirement clerics to equip the holy symbol off-hand to cast spells. A focus doesn't need to be held, it just needs to be worn or on the person of the caster prominently.

The PHB disagrees on this point!

When grappling, components and foci must be held:

You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses [sic] you might need

Otherwise, they must be "prepared," which while that isn't unambiguously "in your hands" (as above), it is certainly distinct from "worn prominently," and seems to be somehow less complex than drawing a sword (which is a move action, or half a move action if you have a BAB... or a free action if you spend a feat on it). But it's definitely nonspecific; you fenagle the scrimshank. For a free action. Yay odd rules.

To cast a spell with a material (M), or focus (F), or divine focus (DF) component, you have to have the proper materials, described by the spell. Unless these materials are elaborate, such as the 2-foot-by-4-boot [sic] mirror that a wizard needs to cast scrying, preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses [sic] whose [sic] costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.

And that goes with the bit where spells with a somatic component (read: every spell that has a material component or a focus, plus some other stuff) require a free hand to cast. Flavor says that said free hand fenagles the scrimshank. Practice says it's a very abstract rule.