Balance between players

[rorax]

Hey

Regarding this issue, basically i'm not up for faster advancement rate, but wanted to ask what creative ways you would like to promote to balance the advancement rate / wealth gain between players who get regular DM sessions to players who never see DM.

I can't. The primary method for xp and wealth gain should be through dmed sessions, and in my opinion trying to balance that with static quests and scripts would devalue those dmed sessions, not to mention more work for a tech team that is already worked to the bone.

Hey.

Did not want to start a discussion on your PA Q&A thread, so i'll start here a new one.

I do not think that the MAIN wealth and xp gain should be through DM sessions. I think there are few ways that can help to balance that, i'll try to throw few ideas. Statics quests will not help to balance anything, as they are available to everyone, DMed players and non DM players. In reality what will happen is that DMed players will do them between DM sesions and gaps will remain the same.


Do not punish players who are not DMed twice:

1. When they are basically not included in any dynamic and interesting plots.
2. When you state that the main way to gain wealth and xp is through DM sessions.


I am pretty sure things can be done about it, just few ideas from the sleeve(did not spend too much thinking about them). I am sure if someone will sit and think how to balance things up he will find more creative ways.

1. Recruit more DMs to cover more timezones. This idea failed in the reality test so far, mostly stating this to the one who'll reply to this thread by "recruit more/your own dm"

2. Build soft caps for XP. For example , if it's agreed on everyone no one should get X number of XP in Y number of days. Then if someone being DMed , this amount of XP will be taken from his cap.

3. Build more areas with tougher challenges that would fit to wider arrays of character levels. Currently, there are very few places who provide challenges to characters above level 7-8.

4. Create some form of "XP Bank" . Agree on some amount of XP that every player can 'withdraw' on weekly / monthly basis and use for advancement. DM experience will be taken of from that amount. For example , if we decide that every week max XP is 1k including everything, so player who wasn't DMed would be able to use 1K, a player who had 500xp of DM sessions, will be able to use only 500. Probably not going to be very popular as people would say "why reward someone for doing nothing"? , on the other hand, we already reward people for doing nothing besides walking in circles in RPXP form.


Those are just ideas, not saying they are the best, probably if someone think hard he can come with something better.

Last request , please don't just quote the ideas and shoot arrows in what's wrong with them, that's not very helpful and really easy to do. If someone got other ideas, or want to express his opinion in some other form then finding faults in others people ideas , feel free.

[Swift]

Soft caps don't work. We used to have them, nobody liked them. An XP bank is an even worse idea, as it creates a sense of entitlement.

3. Build more areas with tougher challenges that would fit to wider arrays of character levels. Currently, there are very few places who provide challenges to characters above level 7-8.

If players stop farming the shit out of the low level spawns on TSM I will personally build areas that have higher level spawns. I do not envision I will have any building work any time soon.

Last request , please don't just quote the ideas and shoot arrows in what's wrong with them, that's not very helpful and really easy to do. If someone got other ideas, or want to express his opinion in some other form then finding faults in others people ideas , feel free.

What is the point of an ideas thread if people aren't allowed to debate the merits of ideas put up?

Unfortunately, the simple reality is that this community tries to recreate the feeling of tabletop D&D. A DM will always end up being the main source of XP and wealth. Always has been, always likely it will be. Does it suck that we cant have 24/7 coverage in all timezones? Yes. Does it suck that we can't have even one DM in every time zone? Yes, but there is not a great deal we can do about that apart from continuing to encourage people to step up and directing them to the servers that most need them.

[rorax]

If players stop farming the sh*t out of the low level spawns on TSM I will personally build areas that have higher level spawns. I do not envision I will have any building work any time soon.

.

When you ask people to "stop doing something" you have to offer some kind of alternative. What is your alternative? 'farming' might be the only way for some people to /try/ and keep up with the advancement rate and wealth gain of people who regularly get DM sessions.

Lets assume people 'stop' farm for a moment, how would you suggest they would advance in levels? or gain wealth? if they get zero DM sessions which is according to you and others the main source for advance.

[Swift]

When you ask people to "stop doing something" you have to offer some kind of alternative. What is your alternative? 'farming' might be the only way for some people to /try/ and keep up with the advancement rate and wealth gain of people who regularly get DM sessions.

Well, generally I would say that in this instance, that is not a defence. "I will only stop doing something that can get me banned from ALFA if you give me something better to do" isn't exactly going to make a DM feel sympathy to your plight.

Im not saying stop killing things, im saying stop killing things in the same places every single day that you are online.

Lets assume people 'stop' farm for a moment, how would you suggest they would advance in levels? or gain wealth? if they get zero DM sessions which is according to you and others the main source for advance.

There are alot of DMs these days, some more active than others. Instead of farming level 1 goblins for their phat broken swords, searching out DMs that may end up being on other servers that line up with you and inquiring cannot hurt.

FWIW, the main reason I havn't personally cracked down on the rampant farming that occurs on TSM IS because at this stage, we do not have an alternative to offer. That doesn't make such actions right/legal, though.

[rorax]

[

FWIW, the main reason I havn't personally cracked down on the rampant farming that occurs on TSM IS because at this stage, we do not have an alternative to offer. That doesn't make such actions right/legal, though.

Again...

1. No DMs for some players.
2. Farming is illegal
3. No alternatives.


WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST TO DO? (aside from pointing to the rules).

[Veilan]

2. Build soft caps for XP.

Soft caps don't work. We used to have them, nobody liked them.

That's not entirely accurate. We had planned a more advanced system, that was not a cap, but rather a flattener - high earners would get a little less, and slow earners would get a little more, to push advancement rates towards the middle. We never implemented it, though, but I'm still hoping - it's a great idea and something noone could honestly disagree with, as noone gets punished - if you are a high earner, you still get something more than the person who is not as lucky for time and DMs, just not that much more. And slow gainers would get a push, making it easier for them to hook up with the others and not build a second caste of the shunned and wretched.

Cheers,

[Blindhamsterman]

If players stop farming the sh*t out of the low level spawns on TSM

if people are doing this, report them to Curmudgeon as HDM, and PA (once they're elected).

Farming isn't good. Full Stop (course I guess it does depend on whats defined as farming in this case?)

[hollyfant]

I farm.

There, I said it. And while it's technically not true at the moment (there isn't anything my current character can farm on BG), I still would if I could.

Could someone please tell me what we're supposed to do when not farming? RP with others? What others? There's no-one online if there's nothing to do, and the only thing to do is... farming. Well, that and tavern RP, but ALFA's working on getting that banned too it feels.

If PCs have an IC motivation to walk patrols all day, slay a score of zombies or rescue a dozen kittens, let them. It's the nearest thing to unDMed adventure, albeit with a diminished yield and a greatly increased risk of death. People might even team up and have some fun!

[Blindhamsterman]

Holly,

on BG I've been spawning things, not just monsters, but also random npcs, and a variety of other little bits about the server. I wont give meta info on where, or what to expect, but that should be reason enough to grap another player in IRC or in game, RP a bit and take a walk.

If I'm on IRC, you're also welcome to prod me for some RP, just a note, that folk in the euro timezone are more likely to get a 'sure I'll log in' from me than anyone else. people in EST or any other non-Euro Timezone are catered to in some respect by other DMs.

Cheers

Alisdair

minor edit. Might as well add that I see less of an issue if groups of players go out together, and go to different caves each day they log in, as Holly said, that is adventuring. It's really just when one person or when a couple of people go to every single cave on a server, every day. It makes things less fun for everyone else (they log in and theres nothing to do) and theres not really a good way to justify that, well you can, but its just any old justification for farming really.

[thinkpig]

Find people to play with. Find a DM. That is probably the only way you will get the advancement (and the game, heh) you want. If you're more worried about your experience points/advancement than telling an interesting story and finding others to do it with, why even bother with ALFA? There are plenty of MMOs where you can get the sort of grind you want.

Finding people to play with might be hard, but what else is new? Lots of stuff is hard. Like getting your items crafted, making it to level 2... that's what I hear about the most lately.

ALFA takes patience. I have spent so many hours roleplaying in caves, in taverns, wherever, with no DM, for months and months between DMs and games. It helps that I joined a really cohesive group and we make a lot of our own stories between DM games that are really interesting and mostly have nothing to do with killing monsters and getting loot. Honestly those games have been some of my best experiences in ALFA.

The more you care about your character and their story, the more you play it out and resist the urge to 'get out there and level up', the more you slow down and spend time on RP and learn to enjoy ALFA for what it is, the less frustrated you'll get and the more you'll enjoy the game. With patience your characters will take on a new dimension and others will be more interested in playing with you, including DMs.

I believe that is your only solution.

Good luck

[rorax]

I farm.

There, I said it. And while it's technically not true at the moment (there isn't anything my current character can farm on BG), I still would if I could.

Could someone please tell me what we're supposed to do when not farming? RP with others? What others? There's no-one online if there's nothing to do, and the only thing to do is... farming. Well, that and tavern RP, but ALFA's working on getting that banned too it feels.

If PCs have an IC motivation to walk patrols all day, slay a score of zombies or rescue a dozen kittens, let them. It's the nearest thing to unDMed adventure, albeit with a diminished yield and a greatly increased risk of death. People might even team up and have some fun!

It seems like a lost war, holly.

It seems that there are bunch of people around who usually enjoy most of the spoils around and also having fun lecturing others about rules and punishments. Those people would tend to ignore problems or try to solve them, they would just point you back to the book and show you where you broke the law, while providing no other solutions.


Reminds me something like lawful neutral(or evil) dictators, who enjoy the spoils of their country, keep taxing the poor, and then when one of the poor people steal because they do not have any other choice, they just point him back to the rules and punish him.

Adding on the top of all that, they think that they deserve a big thanks when they come near to do something not directly beneficial for themselves.



P.S:

Farming is bad....so say all the wise people and lawyers around...


I tell you what's even worst...

People who farm but get regular DM sessions.

And i'll tell you what EVEN WORSE...

People who farm, get regular DM sessions AND whine about other farmers who farmed the same 'resources' before them.

[t-ice]

The only thing that would work to achive the balance desired, is to ban DMs from giving xp or increasing PC wealth. Remove all gp and xp awards from static quests. Then tie both xp and gp to a timed script, like the rpxp. Come up with the appropriate number for xp per RL hour in-game, and give gp according to the wealth table. There. Perfect balance, complete fairness, and perfect adhearance to the wealth per level table. Everyone happy, right?

The DMs can fully focus on DMing, as they don't have to worry about the minutea and chore of PC awarding and bookkeeping on what the PCs have or not.

Think any DM would be happy running it? It's either a DM-run game, or it's a scripted MMORPG. You can have small incentives for people to get in-game to RP with each other without a DM, plan in advance for DM sessions, and do inter-PC character development. But if you really insist on having MMORPG content on an even near-equal-rewards footing with DMd content, you'll simply cheapen what DMs can offer to the PCs when they are around, and make DMing not worth it. But that's only my opinion, of course.

As far as static content goes, I think if it's there it should be doable. Script in diminishing rewards, or other limitations if you must, or simply keep rewards low enough (like, at maximum X times the rpxp trickle). Active policing that takes human time is a gargantuan loss of the most important resource.

[CloudDancing]

All farming and playing alone does is make your roleplaying weak. The more you do it, the less you remember to practice basic IC social skills that are essential with alfa. It's a repetitve obessesive complusive activity that ultimate leads to character death and more illgeal behaviors that exploit the game engine.

There are 100 other servers out in the Gamespy ether that have farming and allow it. You can do it anywhere. Haven and Baldur's Gate: The Sword Coast have umpteen players 24 hours a day, cheap and easy leveling, and spawns up the yin yang. There is even World fo Warcraft and DD Stormrage Online.

BUT they do not have Dms that actively create D&D and pen and paper style gaming or allow player content or protect players from metagaming. As well the roleplay is spotty at best and metagaming is just reprehensible. And yet people still struggle to be the richest and the highest level.

It is best to stick with the rules of the land in the right land, esp when you can log off and find a place you are not considered cheating.

[Vendrin]

If there is no dm in your timezone, then bite the bullet and start dming yourself.

If you don't want to do it, then re-arrange your schedule so you can make a dm's timezone. I'm american, live on the west coast and go out of my way to wake up way earlier then I'd like on a sunday morning after working till 2 in the morning to make my euro dm's session.

[JaydeMoon]

I don't think that you are allowed to DM yourself.

Something about pillars.