How would you settle arms wrestling results between two PCs? stronger always win or some form of check?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:10 pm
by hollyfant
The rule of thumb is that straightforward opposed Ability tests aren't rolled but simply compared. So yes, the character with the highest Strength would always win an arm wrestling contest, the one with the biggest Constitution can hold their breath longest, etc.
There's also an alternative option to roll three opposed tests and then the winner is the character who wins twice, but that should really only be done when chance actually enters into things and both players agree.
The real exception would come when an NPC is involved: sometimes a DM does not treat them as "real" characters, but more like ambulant challenges. In which case they don't get an opposed roll (or rolls), but have a DC.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:00 pm
by dergon darkhelm
PC to PC I would roll a single strength check.
A possible variant ...... each PC rolls consecutive strength checks. The rolls continue until one PC beats the other by 4 or more points twice in a row. this could simulate the ebb and flow and one PC finally getting the upper hand then winning.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:36 pm
by hollyfant
dergon darkhelm wrote:PC to PC I would roll a single strength check.
The problem with that is that it employs a d20 and a modifier. So there's still a sizeable chance the 8 Strength Halfling beats the 19 Strength half Orc: d20-1 versus d20+4. Five "points" of actual Strength difference, and twenty points of randomness.
In an actual fight the Hin has a chance - if he's lucky. But in a straightforward test?
I don't think so.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:52 pm
by dergon darkhelm
Yeah --you're right .....need to make it happen numerous times consecutively to make it more statisticly likely.
Call it win by 5 or more, 3 times in a row
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:19 pm
by Lucifer
just for the sake of argument I agree with the roll more than once but always roll. IRL arm wrestling does involve both strength and skill. Just as a knockdown is possible with say a Hin vs a Half-Orc. If a PC wants to attempt something it should always be at least "labelled" possible, just as it someone insists on a roll and 1 comes up..failure IS always an option.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:53 pm
by hollyfant
The Player Handbook on page 66 wrote:In some cases, an action is a straight test of one’s ability with no luck involved. Just as you wouldn’t make a height check to see who is taller, you don’t make a Strength check to see who is stronger. When two characters arm wrestle, for example, the stronger character simply wins. In the case of identical scores, roll a die.
I'm no arm wrestler, I've no idea how much or what kind of skill is involved. But rolling dice does not simulate the presence of skill, it merely adds randomness. If the 8 Strength Halfling wins the roll(s) it's not because he was more skilled. He just got lucky.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:05 pm
by Vaelahr
I would object to halflings being able to arm-wrestle humans or half-orcs at all. The difference between arm size is too great. A leverage issue methinks, that would override str scores. Weight classes, people. Weight classes! So dwarves, gnomes, and halflings are in one tent. Humans, elves, and orcish folk in another. Yes? ....No?
Now what about a tied roll? Would a con check then be in order to simulate endurance or do you just keep on with str?
This sounds like it could make for some fun tavern RP, putting some gold on the line to make things interesting. Spectators could bet too.
And I like the multiple roll format. A 16 str fella should have a chance to beat the 18 str guy, wrestling skill being that intangible element. Remember the movie, Over The Top?
Now that's at least a 5 die-roll match. At 3:25... there's the skill.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:11 am
by johnlewismcleod
Vaelahr wrote: Remember the movie, Over The Top?
Now that's at least a 5 die-roll match. At 3:25... there's the skill.
His first movie was good, but after that I've been unable to sit through a single one
IMO Vaelahr (dispite his questionable taste in movies ) and the others are right...arm wrestling is not a simple test of strength. In my younger and more competitive days I remember being beaten at it by men who shouldn't have been able to.
There is skill and technique involved as well. I would think some combination of strength and dexterity would simulate it best.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:36 am
by danielmn
An intelligence check would also have to be made for even doing something so stupid as to arm wrestle a half-orc whose only obvious profession is lifting really heavy things and swinging a big sword around......
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:42 am
by Audark
Let the Wookiee win
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:12 pm
by dergon darkhelm
Well, now we're off the deep end.
I think we should make a new SRD special melee action
"Arm Wrestling"
"Arm Wrestling is a special combat action which is opposed by the target's own arm wrestle check. Favorable and unfavorable circumstances weigh heavily on the outcome of an arm wrestling check, as do size and other conditional modifiers. An arm wrestle check is a full round action.
Step 1: Initiate an arm wrestling match. If the PC's opponent does not wish to participate in the arm wrestling competition, the attempt to initiate povokes an Attack of Opportunity. If the defender’s attack of opportunity deals any damage, your arm wrestle attempt fails. If the opponent is agreeable to the arm wrestle, no AoO is needed.
Step 2:
Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your unarmed attack bonus. If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. Each participant adds their strength modifier to the roll.
Step 3:
Consequences. If you beat the defender, the defender's arm is dislodged, and you are victorious in the armwrestling.
If you fail on the arm wrestle attempt, the defender may immediately react and attempt to counter-wrestle you with the same sort of opposed melee attack roll. His attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from you. If he fails his attempt, no result occurs until the next round of combat, repeat beginning at step 2.
PC's with at least 5 ranks of sleight of hand gain a +2 synergy bonus to arm wrestles checks.
Note: A defender wearing spiked gauntlets can’t be arm wrestled.
A PC with the special feat, Improved Arm Wrestling gains an additional +4 modifier to his opposed rolls. Also, with the Improved Arm Wrestling feat, the PC intiates the arm wrestling without provoking an AoO.
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:20 pm
by hollyfant
What if one of the participants doesn't actually have any arms?
Re: Arm wrestling?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:13 pm
by Vaelahr
All kidding aside, if I was DM, I'd say best out of 5 opposed str rolls. If there's 3 consecutive winning rolls, then it was a quick one-sided contest.... or it could go back and forth.
If there's a tied str roll, then a single dex roll is made by both to simulate that "over-the-top" hand-grip thing.
If the dex rolls tie then both wrestlers roll con to simulate endurance/stamina. If that roll ties, repeat opposed con rolls to see who breaks the stalemate.
Best out of five then. Best out of seven for the finals, perhaps. And this sounds like something the Lathanderites might facilitate, being avid supporters of atheletics and such.
) and the others are right...arm wrestling is not a simple test of strength. In my younger and more competitive days I remember being beaten at it by men who shouldn't have been able to. 
