A Land Far Away

Hey.


Asked it few months back ago, but got no answer...so asking again.

Would it be possible to enhance ALFA with clans membership that would actually have game mechanism meaning?

As if my character is associated with a clan - members of that clan will always assist him? or not attack him in the case that clan members are aggressive?

Examples :

1. If my character is argent legion member, and he attacks another PC / NPC, the guards would auto assist my char instead of attacking him and tag him as criminal.

2. If my character is associated with brigands clan who automatically attack everyone, he would be able to go near those brigands peacefully.


Possible technically?

Sure it's possible technically. It certainly was in NWN1, so I don't see why it wouldn't be in NWN2.

Rotku wrote:Sure it's possible technically. It certainly was in NWN1, so I don't see why it wouldn't be in NWN2.

Great.

Does it sound appealing to DMs / Admins / AL ?

Does it interest someone besides myself? I think it could add some nice RP enhancement in many forms.

The problem is the possibility of CvC abuses. Run a few statics, get the clan-token and then wait for your target to come by. Most characters stand little chance against a surprise attack as-is, let alone when the NPCs join in. It could be IC; it wouldn't be fun.

Another issue would be the limited return on investment. "Clans" need to be identified, membership codified, scripts written and put in place and abuse monitored all for a slightly more realistic NPC reaction. I'm not sure it would be worth it.

Having NPCs acknowledge you in a small way would be really cool, mind. But I'd draw the line at fighting. You'd need to make a DC 30 Diplomacy check for that. Or 60 if it's suicidal.

helping pcs in fight might be a bit of an overkill, but i think it would be rather cool if let's say most wildlife would not attack druids on sight, uthgardts would leave their own alone, or highwaymen would wink as the halfling thief group walks by...

a

hollyfant wrote:The problem is the possibility of CvC abuses. Run a few statics, get the clan-token and then wait for your target to come by. Most characters stand little chance against a surprise attack as-is, let alone when the NPCs join in. It could be IC; it wouldn't be fun.

I see the point , but :

1. Clans tokens can be granted only by DMs, and not just by finishing X number of quests. Finishing those quests might be a prerequisite though, before addressing DM.

2. CvC abuse can come in many ways, if player or group of players plan to twink/cheat CvC, they will find the way to do it, with or without the clan membership issue. It's like 'the knife' , you can skin orange with it , but some would always find excuse to use it for stabbing, does not mean it should not have been invented though

hollyfant wrote: Another issue would be the limited return on investment. "Clans" need to be identified, membership codified, scripts written and put in place and abuse monitored all for a slightly more realistic NPC reaction. I'm not sure it would be worth it.

I guess you're right, that's why i am asking first place how complicated implementing such thing would be and if anyone interested in this at all...

hollyfant wrote: Having NPCs acknowledge you in a small way would be really cool, mind. But I'd draw the line at fighting. You'd need to make a DC 30 Diplomacy check for that. Or 60 if it's suicidal.

Anything would be cool i guess, from druid NOT being attacked by wild animals, to brigand not being attack by his auto aggressive friends. Maybe it' is good idea to draw the line at clan members just being neutral at any scene then actually have them fight on your side. Or maybe like you suggest, some kind of check can be invovled.

Come to think of it - when CvCing a DM should be on ANYHOW. So i guess making your clan members neutral actually give the DM maneuvering space to choose how clan members around should react.

For example, if someone in Rivermoot abuse his power and attack another lawful PC for unjustified reason, the DM might decide that the other rivermoot militia members actually helping the victim against their attacker.

On the other hand, a dm might decide that in Zhentil keep the guards would do nothing if they see someone of their ranks attacking someone else with no justified reason.

So yeah, i guess making clan members always be neutral to your 'clanned' PC is a fair solution, that would give DM the time to make the needed choices if CvC happen.

Hey, anyone wanna join my clan?

no

no

Me!

I agree with Dirsa's veiws on wildlife for druids, etc. getting a neutral response, but I would think this sort of thing would have to be handled on an individual basis via DM/HDM awarding of a token.

There are many factors that come into play as to whether individuals are accepted by and protected or tolerated by animals or people...one that immediately springs to mind is Charisma, but I would think (particularly with higher humanoids) Intelligence and Wisdom would also enter into the equation.

Auto clan membership just because the player of a PC chooses to "belong" to a "clan" is a non-starter IMO, as it would force NPC's and MOB's to ignore the reality of stats and behaviour...that is WoW gaming, not ALFA RPing.

In the case of animals, it has always eluded me why charisma is a factor. I have known many people in RL who look and act like your smelliest dwarf but animals love them.

Also, a military commander may not have the best wisdom, intelligence and charisma, but due to his experience and expertise on the matter, the soldiers follow him.

In that light, would think that skills are a better usage for factions rather than raw ability points. Let's face it, you could have a 20th level fighter with 20 points in diplomacy who might only have a char mod of +0, but he is still going to grab the attention of many people.

**oh and none of you were invited to the clan anyways

The simple fact that some people can interact with wild animals, while others cause a "fight or flight" response explains the significance of charisma there, I think (though arguably this could more appropriately be a function of Wisdom [hence DM or HDM moderation of this if implemented]).

To suggest that charisma, intelligence, and wisdom don't come into play within the military is...well...having trouble finding a suitable term for response, heh

Soldiers are people, just like you and me. If someone is has exceptionally low people skills he/she will have a hard time of it anywhere when interacting with other people IMO. And, in fact, this could be even more of an issue in military situations than among civilians.

I believe in ALFA we aspire to submersive RP...and this includes playing our stats and accepting responses to them IG from others. If we disregard stats, it is a slippery slope that leads inevitably to PG builds and WoW gameplay IMO.

Killing monsters and gaining loot and XP are great fun, of course, but that pales in comparison to the satisfaction to be had by inhabiting a character in the living, breathing world that is ALFA while doing so.

I don't like the idea of scripted faction support. Not at all actually. A faction "token" does not let the computer decide if your RP is in accord with the tenets of that faction or not. It just reads the token and the AI kicks in. For example, if a PC is not acting in accord with his oath to the Legion would other members fight for him anyway? A computer script cannot discern this RP wise, or if it can I think it would be really complicated. This sort of thing should just be left to DMs IMO. Membership in a faction can have other benefits that are scripted however, like P-Storage, access to special stores, items, prices, lodging etc, all of which we already have in game. IMO scripted AI faction support is rife for abuse and should be avoided.